Dave

He didn't play in the Hawks series at all. I do agree, though. He did leave a noticeable hole. I went with Ericsson. If he can have a Norris worthy year, then the D will be perfectly fine.

Helm's played, what, 1 game in over a year and half? I hate to say it, but I don't think he's going to hit NHL ice again.

Kronwall Howard Nyquist Alfie Weiss Ericsson Abby Andersson Tatar Smith Helm Kindl Z Dats Dekeyser Lashoff Franzen Eaves Bert Gustavsson

Article at http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2013/7/11/4513068/red-wings-development-camp-day-1 Some of the LGW members will like this:

Consistent punishment might be useful. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't. So players roll the dice because, who knows, they might get away with it.

Oh man. That would be awesome if Mantha made the team. Maybe he could be like Detroit's Saad.

meh, oh well. We have a glut of forwards anyways.

Anyone want to run some NHL '13 sims? I'm still on the old NHL '10.

This is probably more positive than negative for NJ. I think he's going back to Russia. On TSN it says he retired from the NHL, not all of hockey.

Saying someone else performed worse does not mean Holland did well. Holland has made some TERRIBLE FA acquisitions in the past. Jason Williams, Sammy, Hatcher, Conklin, Exelby, Calder, Cross, etc. The only FAs there were really any good were Lang, Bert, Rafalski, Hossa, Miller, Eaves, Hasek 2.0. The past 10 years is a big enough sample size to determine that FA, and trades are not Holland's strong points. He's good at managing the cap, drafting, and re-signing.

I read somewhere that it was likely that he is going to test the market. So, since other teams will overpay for anybody it's not far fetched that he won't be with Det next year.

Check out this lineup, WHOA! FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) Gustav Nyquist ($2.501m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.250m) / Danny Cleary ($3.200m) Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($1.200m) Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) LTIR Darren Helm ($2.125m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,753,379; BONUSES: $1,010,000 CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $2,556,621 That top 6 is INCREDIBLE. Look out NHL, s***.just.got.real.

I didn't see, what did they get from SJ?

Just the first round. I imagine after that it will be rapid fire, without interviews with every draftee.

I always thought Jones was NHL ready, but Stevie disagrees?

Unfortunately. It's been pretty apparent the past 2 seasons.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER My Custom Lineup FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($6.727m) / Michael Ryder ($4.500m) Gustav Nyquist ($1.501m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($3.350m) Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Drew Miller ($1.350m) Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.050m) Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Brendan Smith ($0.927m) Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) OTHER Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m) Buyout: Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,624,193; BONUSES: $1,010,000 CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $685,807 Such a pipe dream, but whatevs...This is what I'd like to see.

It's the same reason Royce Gracie dominated in the early years of UFC, then proceeded to get dominated by the later generations of fighters. Was Orr better than his competition of the time? Absolutely, no question. However, his competition is so far below today's NHL that his gaudy numbers would never happen in today's game. Another good comparison would be Maltby dominating in juniors. He was way better than his competition, but he couldn't dominate like that against higher skilled players.

Goalies these days actually know how to go down and get back up in a timely fashion. They don't just lay on their back flailing their legs around hoping to miracle a save. It seems like 50% of the highlights from that era involve the goalie comically over-committing, and not being able to recover.

That's part of it, but they're also much more athletic. Lateral movement is an actual thing now, not just standing around until it's time to stack the pads.

Am I the only person here who thinks that Orr would not be able to score at all in today's game? Seriously, most of his goals were garbage. He was allowed to just skate around the O zone without anyone laying a body on him. Nobody blocked shots back then like they do today. Finally, goalies have improved a s*** ton since the '70s.

Holland usually gets players to sign before the end of the season. If Detroit was going to retain Fil it would have been done by now. Which leads to what we were all complaining about at the trade deadline. We lose Fil for absolutely nothing.

Seriously, what is with the hate for this guy? The weirdos over on HF make it sound like he's the worst player to ever make the NHL.

I thought his defense really improved throughout the year. By the time the playoffs came around his D looked adequate. He's not here to shut guys down, he's here to score goals.

Just start calling every over dramatic reaction a dive. After a while people will learn to take a stick to the face and keep skating. They can call it the flopping penalty.