PavelValerievichDatsyuk

I agree that Blash didn't get the most out of the group, but when we talk just in overarching statements about Blash making everyone playing only defensive hockey it's not true and seems more like a caricature. To talk specifically about the treatment of AA, for instance. AA really didn't play much of a defensive game. So why do people keep saying he was forced to play a defensive game? He was 12th in the league for goals per 60 minutes. So how can it be true that the style of play that he played stunted his offence? He scored a whole lot for the time he was given. I think the valid complaint is the amount of time he was given. With a team as offensively starved as ours, we should have given more minutes to him and Vanek. But even in that, I think the choice is understandable at least. Offensive players that aren't defensive as well are usually given roles on the 3rd line unless they score like Ovechkin or Kane. That's what we also did with him and Vanek (and Minny and the Habs also did with Vanek). And I don't think AA needed to be benched - especially with our under-performers. But the reasons were valid. AA did disappear for stretches. Blash's comment in these times weren't even much to do with defence and more just compete level: "I think there's nights where he's real engaged and I think he's an outstanding player, nights where that engagement isn't the same, whether it's the competitive level or the engagement or the attention to detail," Blashill said. "It's just hopefully a maturation process for him that he can continue to make sure that every night that competitive level is at the level it needs to be to be successful in this league. "It's a league where everybody's so close in talent ... if you don't compete like crazy, then it's hard to be successful. Compete means win puck battles, make sure that you don't get beat defensively. I talked to Ted Lindsay before the season and Ted said, 'Just make sure and tell those players if they go into the corner with another player and they don't come out with the puck, they're a horse-blank hockey player.' That's what it comes down to. Competitiveness, desire to win matters the most. It trumps talent." http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/12/jeff_blashill_red_wings_andrea.html

What are you basing this on, though? We didn't do most of those things last year. If that's what he expects, he didn't get it. And in interviews, I never heard him say anything like "defence first." I feel like people see are struggling offence from last year and just load the blame on Blashill. Sure, he deserves some, but much is just the state of the team. We had a lot of underperforming players (Larkin, Nyquist, Sheahan etc) new inconsistent guys (AA, Mantha) loss of Pav's production, Defence is kind of a mess and forwards are compensating by playing more D...

The KHL season already started. Most teams have already played 7-8 games of the 60 game season That doesn't mean he won't sign there, but I think it looks less likely that he'll go there. I mean, wouldn't he get a fraction of the 3 mill offer taken off for the missed games? if so, the financial incentive would get less and less as this continues.

Besides the goal, Cholo has looked impressive. Really composed with the puck. Doesn't ditch it when he gets pressure on.

Just turned it on. Oh hockey, how I've missed thee. GOAL!!!

That's why I wrote the "ifs" in my post.

I think it would all really depend on what AA's 3rd deal would be worth. Your guess of 2.8 seems low to me. But I know you had to put a number under the 3 mill KHL offer to make the argument that he'd make more in the long term by going there for a year. As a guy who score 18 goals in 64 games, that's on pace for 23 over 82. If that's who he is, even without improving, I don't think you're going to get that for 2.8 when he's up for free agency. But, anyway, I think most expect him to improve his game and if he's in line for a 3rd contract around the size of Nyquist or Tatar's then there's no question that he'd make more over the 3 years by staying in the NHL. As for the amount of the bridge deal - depending on whether it's right now as oppose to after a year in the KHL - I think it's very questionable that you grant him an increase of 500 000 thousand in your calculations. Would the Red WIngs really raise the offer based on results of his year in Russia? Not exactly sure, but I doubt it.

Looking forward the play-by-play call: "Holmstrom to Gilmour to Esposito over to Gallant." Probably never thought you'd hear those names together. (And, yes, then the too-many-men call because we'd have 4 forward on, haha)

You can argue that we shouldn't have signed Daley, but not really the order of signings. The free agency period opens early and most desirable players are gone pretty much right away so you have to sign UFAs right away. It's very normal that RFAs get dealt with later. Anyway, I'm sure these negotiations got started quite a while ago and I doubt it was treated as an afterthought or whatever. I've got to do some fact checking on this. AA was 22 last year (apparently hish birfday is in Aug) and he was a regular (minus playoffs) in the second half the year before, so he really made the NHL at age 21. Compared to the norm for Red Wings prospects that is fast. But, yeah don't overpay the RFA. No matter what people think of his future, his NHL record so far is what dictates this contract.

But isn't it AA's agent fault for get the KHL involved? Haven't seen any evidence of AA being mistreated in these negotiations. 1.9 is a fair offer. I'd be happy with 2.25, but I think Holland is right to shun any consideration of the KHL offer since it would set a dangerous precedent. And since the agent brought it up Holland is in a hard place where he can really raise the offer without seeming to give in due to a KHL offer. It's possible the agent hurt the negotiations and maybe even the likelihood of getting the offer raised by doing this. Not going to defend some of larger problems with the cap and some choices that got us there, but I think I can get out the trusty turd-polisher to see a bright side if AA goes to the KHL. On the one hand, we'll probably suck, but on the other hand, we'll probably suck and maybe get a shot at Dahlin or Svechnikov. Also, AA would come back and get the same deal they're offering now so we'll have him as a cheaper player for year longer into the rebuild which might help. But I'm pretty concerned about this - mostly for whether he'll want to sign on long term in the future or if this somehow bitters the relationship.

1.25 is a low offer, but opening offers usually are. 1.9 is reasonable. I don't think it makes sense financially for him to go to the KHL for just 1 year at 3 mill. He'll make more than 3 when this 2 year deal is up. Over the 3 year period, then, he could end up making less. I guess if you're concerned with the olympics or immediate money then it could make sense, though. Still hope they're just trying get an extra 2-300 000 on the offer.

McDavid is among the small percent of guys that teams skip the bridge deals for and try to lock up long term. You must realize that. McDavid's long term deal is like a UFA in terms of money since he would have just signed a bridge deal if they didn't offer something on the scale of a UFA type deal. The short RFA bridge deals is what E_T was talking about. They're not comparable to UFA deals (a.k.a Helm). So what's up with Athanasiou? I thought the agent said he'd make his decision this week and it's Friday, so....

haha, musician's schedule. Had show, couldn't sleep after.

Only 3 guys in the KHL make 4 mill or more (Kovy, Dats, Voynov) so AA's offer wouldn't be that high. And only 7 guys make more than 2 million so I can't imagine his KHL offer was very large really. 2.5-3 as the highest possibility to me, but that is really just a guess. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/khl-contract-salaries-highest-paid-datsyuk-radulov-kovalchuk-kontinental-hockey-league/ Nichushkin bolted from the Dallas Stars last year in similar situation and he only made 1.21 million in the KHL. Both players had 29 pt. seasons before negotiating, but AA's goal total (18) is double what Nichushkin's so I'm not how you should weigh that compareable. The only real hint at Kenny's offer, is when he said he expects us to be "slightly over the cap" if we sign AA. According to Detroit new's article on the KHL offer, we're already 2.5 mill over. If we consider Franzen's LTIR cap relief (3.95 mill), then we at least know he's offering more than 1.45 million. I guess it all depends how you interpret "slightly over" to guess how much higher the offer would be. But i look to the Sheahan deal. We signed Sheahan for 2.075 when he had an extra year in the NHL under his belt, but after a year when he had very similar stats (-4 goals). So I think that offer is around 2 mill.

There's this Mlve article from today: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/08/andreas_athanasiou_agent_consi.html#incart_river_index "The agent for Andreas Athanasiou said there is a wide gap between offers the young forward has received from the Detroit Red Wings and some KHL clubs. ...Red Wings general manager Ken Holland said he remains in contact with Ferris but "the ball is in their court. They have a decision to make." Holland said he has made multiple good-faith offers based on comparables -- NHL players of similar age and accomplishments (games, goals, points per game, etc.). ...Holland has said he still expects to be slightly over the cap if Athanasiou is signed, requiring him to make another move. But the cap isn't the reason the Red Wings, who have made offers of one and two years, don't have a deal with the fast-skating winger who has 27 goals and 43 points in 101 NHL games. They're determined to negotiate based on comparables, not what on a player can get in the KHL. Otherwise, other young players (Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha are up for new deals after the season) could use offers from Russia as a basis for their NHL contract."

I think Vanek is only realistic if AA does actually go to the KHL, but I doubt that will happen.

It's rare that any forwards play 20 minutes a night. Only maybe 10 guys play 20 min a game (Getslaf, McDavid, Kane, etc). None of our forwards did this past year. Z Averaged the most with 19:45 and the next forward was Nyquist with 17:26. If you're really asking for that, it's unreasonable. As for AA vs TT, I think AA could have a higher potential, but I think he has some growing before he finds consistency so I wouldn't expect him to have the higher numbers this year.

If we're talking unrealistically, I'd trade E, Nielson, and Kronwall (only because of his knee issues). I think we'll ride out these deals, though. A more realistic ways to create capspace in the short term (for AA if there's no injuries), I'd be looking to trade Sheahan for a pick or cheaper prospect. I think we'll waive Sproul instead, though. I think there's a chance he might not get claimed so I'll hope for that. Going into the year, trades I think we should look at trades to improve the team with Helm or 1 of our goalies or Green if we've decided not bring him back. These options could bring an actual positive return (at least a pick or prospect for a position we need to bolster). I'm not on the side that we desperately need cap space for our situation. Even the AA situation is caused by the Daley signing in my mind. A lot of the of bad contracts are gone in a couple year when we'll compete. Nielson and Abby are exceptions to that. If we could ship out Nielson, I'm on board.

He had wrist surgery in the offseason so his change in play could be due to that nagging injury rather than being afraid off injury. I agree that he was good for a #4 guy and lets hope he returns to that.

We're a rebuilding team that should be transitioning to younger players that could be around for the future that we're building. You may not think XO or Sproul have a bright future, but 33-35 year olds will likely be retired when this team is competing in a few years. Being bad with young players can be the product of growing pains while being bad with veteran players can be pains with the opposite trajectory.

True, but Vitale and Miller aren't even on the team anymore in any capacity so they definitely shouldn't be included. I'm not going to recalculated it including Franzen, though, since it took more time than it was worth to do it once, haha. We were 11th oldest last year: http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php I'd imagine we're about the same since we got rid of Miller, and got Daley(I know they're not the same position) who is Miller's age (33) and Wit(27) for Ott (35), And ? in for Vanek.

That number's not correct, though. I just added the ages of the 22 players we expect and it's an average age of 26.86. If you click on the red wing's link it lists Miller and Vitale. Maybe including those guys and Franzen is how they got that number?

Nope Average Time on Ice: AA: 13:28 Miller: 10:17 Miller played least amount of any of our regulars and was waived. should have been gone a year earlier, but not a blash favourite this past year. I think it's understandable that these negotiations are having trouble. I was checking out a hockeywriter's article on AA's contract and it has a chart on recent deals and the comparative PPG. Andreas Athanasiou ??? ??? 0.43 Ryan Dzingel $1.8 million 2 years 0.37 Radek Faksa $2.2 million 3 years 0.36 Tobias Rieder $2.25 million 2 years 0.35 http://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-andreas-athanasious-contract-usage/ AA is above all these guys. And his goals per 60 min was 12th in the league (above Tarasenko, Forsberg, Laine, etc). I could see an agent arguing these comparisons and put the number at or near 3 million. The other side of the argument is that AA had very sheltered minutes. Everyone's been expecting a number near 2 million, but I can see why this one wouldn't be as cut and dry. I'm guessing the KHL contract is just a negotiating tactic.

Seguin's 7 year deal isn't representative of what a player of his caliber makes. Seguin signed that deal after his 2nd year in the league and had 1 disappointing 22 point rookie season and 1 break 67 pt. break out season. His contract is very low for what he produces because they took a chance and locked him up longterm before he fully come into his own. He'll probably get 8 or 9 million when his to contract is up in a couple years. Anyway, I hope Tatar's shoulder injury is fixed and he has his best year.

What does everyone expect they'll get? Haven't seen too much talk on this. From TheHockeyWriters.com, I've seen speculation for Tatar at 5-5.5 for 6 years, AA at 2.25 for 2 years, and .75 for XO for 2 years http://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-free-agency-outlook/ Do you think that's fair? I think those are reasonable guesses, but maybe some wishful thinking with XO. Marchenko got 1.45 and I don't think XO's situation is that much different from when that deal was signed. They both were coming off their first full NHL season with 66gp. XO had 3g, 9a, +2 while Marchenko had 2g, 9a, -5. And XO averaged about a minute more icetime than Marchenko did at that point.