PavelValerievichDatsyuk

Have thought about this some more and there's no real problem Z-Lark-Vanek Ny-Nielsen-Abby Tat-AA-Helm Mill/Ott-Glen-Shea Jurco,Pulk Ott is just in for Miller as he comes back or injuries or extra grit. Mantha starts in GR, which I think most of us expected anyway. Injuries will come. Not sure how much of a shot Jurco and Pukkinen are going to get this year, though - I Do wish we hadn't signed Miller and Ott.

I think the Matt Beleskey deal is what got Helm this amount. It is .85 too high.

I'm a Helm supporter and I am glad he's back, but what you say is very true. I see Sheahan, AA, and Helm all as 3rd line centers. None have blown me away on the wing. Maybe AA can do it since I haven't seen him there much and can play on the first 2 lines. Still it will be interesting to see how Helm and Sheahan fit in.

Krug's 5'9"so Hicketts is even smaller. I know there are short guys. St. Louis was 5'8", Gerbe, etc. But there's few of them for a reason. though, and even less among Dmen. It's the same reason why a player of Hicketts calibre went undrafted. I've been impressed with him, but I still consider him a long shot.

It is unlikely that we do so since Vanek is likely a more capable player, but we have done it around the deadline recently: 2016: Kindl (26 - so not really a vet) 2013: Huskins 2012: Commodore 2010: Leino (27 - not really a vet) These were all guys that didn't perform and we only got 6th or 7th rounders. I think it could be an option with Vanek if Mantha comes up and proves himself. From this list, we only send out guys that are superfluous.

Hicketts has done well, but at 5'8" he's very much a long shot to make it to the NHL.

Please delete.

It's not about admitting it's a bad contract. Everyone but Ericsson's mom knows that's too much for him. (Although it's looking less bad when you have Petry getting 5.5 and other such deals) It's the fact that if we bought him now, it would be 1.375 against the cap for the next 8 years. On top of the 1.067 from Weiss that's around for 5 more years. Can't just keep buying out people and handicapping the team. Plus who are we making room for? Many would argue that Sproul, Jensen, Ouellet would be better options, but enough to justify the cap? Ericsson has a modified NTC so he could be tradeable or keep him on the lower pairs where can handle the competition better.

So...Nyquist won't be traded unless people want him, then he might be traded? And... Tatar is the most attractive except that it's highly doubtful that he'd be the one asked for? P.S. I'm also stealing LeftWInger's "..." thing

I'm guessing you didn't actually read the article, just the quoted section. "With Darren Helm re-signed, the Wings have 12 forwards signed to one-way contracts, along with Dylan Larkin, plus restricted free agent Teemu Pulkkinen. That’s 14 forwards for 12 spots, but one or more could be moved in a trade, creating opportunities for the next generation. “Going to camp, we expect Andreas Athanasiou, Anthony Mantha, Tomas Nosek, Tyler Bertuzzi — some of those kids are going to make the team,” general manager Ken Holland told the Free Press. “We’re holding a spot or two for the kids if they can make it." They acknowledge that that there's no room with all the current forwards, but it seems from these comments that not all those players will be around when the season starts. St. James frames the Ott signing partly as "insurance for Drew Miller as he attempts a comeback from a rebuilt knee." Maybe he's sent out or down as soon as Miller's back. Or maybe he's just there for competition. Also, the team surely knew about Pulkkinen's surgery so that creates a spot to start the year. Mantha broke his leg 2 years ago so he's already had a year without the efffects of that. He had a better year last year. He's just under were Tatar and Nyquist were as (in terms of production) at that same point of their development: 2nd Year in GR: Mantha: 60 games - 45pts (21g, 24) Tatar: 70 games - 57pts (24g 33a) Nyquist: 58games - 60pts (23g 37a) (T+N were on better Griffins teams, though) I'm sure Mantha value has already dipped a bit for trade discussions. I think I'd still prefer a trade involving Nyquist at this point. I think Mantha's style will do better in the more organized NHL play. I'm on the fence, though. Giving up 2 of our future scoring wingers would be a big hit - would prefer sending out a Dman, but I think it's obvious there's less value in our group there.

I have no idea how this statement makes sense. If you lead the league, that's a huge accomplishment. The fact that it was a 6 team league doesn't make it less impressive. That's like saying it's no feat to lead scoring in olympic hockey. Some say the current league just waters down the talent pool (but think I think the growth of the game means the talent pool is larger to counteract the effect). You're not making a list of all-time greatest, you're saying who would succeed in today's NHL while keeping the training regimes/techniques of their time. That's a crap shoot to me and I don't really know why that's worth considering. With the advance of the game, players are getting faster, and in better shape all the time. I think with that considered, I think you could argue that the most recent stars would therefore be the best. Or maybe Mrazek in the greatest wing goalie of all-time because the goaltending position has developed so much even since Osgood's prime. Over different historical circumstances isn't a level playing field. Different rules, different equiptment, etc. I think greatness is dealing within the constraints of your time and excelling. Who did the best against their contemporaries is the greatest in my opinion.

I was thinking about this myself. I'm not giving up on him, but there are signs that he possibly won't be the offensive stud we hoped he would be. And anyway, I think our need is still greater for a top defender than the scoring winger that he would be.

McCarty 96-97: 49pts in 68 games Can't do anything else????!!! Also you saying he's a net negative: Do you mean +/-? Because he's a +61 in his career.

Agreed, the silverfox will ride again. I was just saying what I'd prefer. If you slot Miller in for Jurco, though, that is a likely roster to me: Lark-Z-Abby Ny-Niel-Vanek Helm-AA-Tat Miller-Glen-Shea (pulk, Jurco, Ott in GR) Those that are saying there must be trade for a Dman in the works, I think should temper their expectations. We basically have Nielson and Vanek in for Datsyuk and Richards. Ott is an extra forward, but if Ott is only called up for injuries then there's no roster crunch. Of course there's Mantha, but I doubt he's on the opening roster. I'd like a trade for D help though. Ny, Shea could be shed could be replaced by Mantha and Ott/Jurco. Of course, E and Howard are contracts we would like to get rid of if there was a way to put them in the deal. We would need to send out a Dman for anyone coming in.

What did I make up? Pierre Lebrun said Radulov always wanted to go to Montreal. I didn't say that. I was saying that I can see many reasons for the list. I do think making a short list public shows that you have legitimate interest from others for the purpose of negotiating. It's like saying "everybody wants me and all this interest is too crazy i need to limit this." Maybe he would have actually gone to other teams on the list if they offered significantly more than than his preferred team, Montreal. It is speculation. That's different than making something up. It's speculation based on the info given. Your speculation or conclusion that Holland "messed this up" doesn't jive with what we know, except maybe you think we should have offered significantly more than the 5.75.

My bad. I didn't quite realize how congested it is. I don't how they sort things out. I do think AA earned his spot. Helm did say he didn't mind playing on the lower lines, but I don't think the 4th line will be his spot for much time. With what we have, I'd like to see something like: Larkin-Zetterberg-Abdelkader Nyquist-Nielsen-Vanek Helm-AA-Tatar Sheahan-Glendening-Jurco Miller-Pulkkinen (Ott in GR until injuries) Maybe switch Vanek and Abby to make the 2nd line better defensively. And by the end of year Larkin is 1C and maybe then you switch Tatar and Z if he does the late year lull in production that we've seen in recent years. Edit: Or Larkin-Zetterberg-Tatar Nyquist-Nielsen-Abdelkader Helm-AA-Vanek

Glendening's the 4C. Guarantee AA will be on the 3rd line center or alternating center with Sheahan.

Nielson: 32 younger than Datsyuk: 37 Vanek: 32 younger than Richards: 36 How did we get older? Ott is 33 which isn't even that old and he won't play much. He only played 21 games last year. I don't think anyone realistically thinks AA won't be on the team. I think Ott will be a GR call up.

For negotiating purposes, you make it look like you're legitimately considering other teams. Then the team you want to go to pays you more thinking they might not get you. Thought amato explained it well. Or maybe you're just ignore this possibility so you can blame this on Holland.

Because, of course, we have a player like Ericksson was to trade...

You have created your own reality around your opinion. Here's an article about the Stars interest in Helm, that forecasts a bidding war on him. http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-stars/stars/2016/06/30/stars-interested-lucic-helm-free-agency-will-price-right Somewhere else in this thread there's a tweet from Dredger or Mackenzie on the 5 or 6 teams that were vying for him. Glad Helm's back. Terrm is good. Caphit is a bit high. Hope this relegates Miller to the extra forward position.

Yeah, same. Seems he's a great 2 way guy. Best ever shootout guy. He's been healthy - missed only 5 games in the past 5 years (notice this for those comparing this to the Weiss situation). A lot to like here. and 5.25 is a good cap hit if he's a legit 2C. Also, I like his story as the first ever Danish NHLer. After losing Pav, and the prospect of Stamkos he certainly would pale in comparison, but I'm going to reserve judgement and see what he brings to the table.

Honestly i know very little of Nielson. Wikipedia says he the most successful shootout guy all-time. That will definitely help. For a team that needs scoring his history of points leaves much to be desired. 6 years is too long. Hopefully there's not NTC or NMC in case our prospects supplant him in the future.

In the first game last year he tore his ACL and ended his season. The previous 2 years he had 51 pts and 34 pts. Our leading D producer was Green with 35 pts. I would take a chance on him if he didn't have such a history of injuries and we didn't have so many bodies on Defence. This would be a smart pickup for Edmonton if they haven't already filled out their D spots. That's not really what he said. “I want to win. I don’t really mind playing in the bottom lines as long as there is that respect factor. You’re getting opportunities in different situations. If it looks like that is the case, I’ll get to play in those situations that I feel I can play in, then I’ll be happy. If not, if they tell me right away it’s not going to happen, I might not want to stay.” http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/06/26/ufa-of-the-day-darren-helm/ Not really sure what that respect factor means. Helm might be out just because he's not quite good enough at the scoring winger role and we have other players (AA, Larkin, Sheahan) who have taken his ideal spot of 3C. I will be unhappy to see him go if he does. Would have much preferred him signed and Miller cast aside. Helm is 51.4% on the face-offs in his career. Not Draper, but he's at Z's level (51.5).

If Darren Helm had hands he would definitely be a 2nd line player. AA absolutely could develop into a 2C - he's only been played half a year - he is going to get better.