SouthernWingsFan

Nobody is saying Osgood is one of the best goalies of all times, you are just putting words in people's thoughts that aren't there. It's pretty much a given that he has been underrated or at least underappreciated throughout the majority of his career. We currently have a goaltender over 40 who seems to be doing pretty well for himself right now... Howard still has aways to go, at least on the surface, before he's NHL ready I think. Hopefully Grand Rapids fans would know a bit more behind the scenes.

If anything he's been underrated most of his career. That being said, this is sweet news. :rockstar: :band:

QFT. I didn't like him much in his Avs days but he was with the Avs when the rivalry was bigger. I didn't like Chelios much either back in the day because I thought he ranted and whined to much on the ice. Guess what, he still does that sometimes. I'd love for the Wings to take people that are normally supposed to be hated as an unwritten rule if they could help the team and not cost them much and remain under the salary cap (i.e. Iginla, Pronger, Foote, etc.). Hyopthetically speaking of course, I know there's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd probably get Iginia or Pronger. Getting personal feelings with somebody in the way of them possibly helping the Wings out just seems silly to me, although I definitely understand where/why the dislike results. That being said, I'd be for getting Foote here if it makes sense money wise and he's not under contract for that long due to him being in his latter years I am assuming.

Yes I'm tired of it. It's become an absolute joke lately (and not in a good/funny way), and I don't like the scapegoat mentality. Being lovey dovey and talking about how great the Red Wings are all the time is predictable and boring as well, but much like Lang or Lilja last season, or Hasek early this year or Osgood in the past, it gets to be a little bit ridiculous and over the top when we hear it Every. 5. Minutes. About. How. Bad. He. Is. See how annoying that just was? That's how annoying the Samuelsson treatment is more often than not, much like the Lang and Lilja treatment of the past, and much like how some of the goalie talk can get. It's not funny nor entertaining. It's stupid. And predictably, just like it was with Robert Lang and Andreas Lilja, Samuelsson's weaknesses are greatly overdramatized by many members in here. Now I'm all for debate and talk pointing out the flaws of a player or team, and Samuelsson certainly has some. Not so much that he shoots too much, I really like that mentality, but take the flubbed backhander he recently took on a 3-on-2 at the Dallas game. Even if he didn't pass, he could have put a better shot on net I think. Catch-22 though, you never know when a play like that or a wrist shot or decent slapper will yield a juicy rebound and such. Samuelsson seems to be in a tough spot for a fan as well because he's not really the hardest hitter though he has some physical game to him, so at first glance he doesn't look suited for a checking or fourth line role. And he's not your main scorer but has that capability, so when he's not scoring on a second line, people get upset. What type of line/role is he most effective in then? And his game is boring overall. I know that sounds bad, but hear me out. When you shoot the puck more often than not and don't have the razzle-dazzle skills like Datsyuk or St. Louis or Crosby for instance, that can get a bit boring. Not good/bad, it just is what it is and that is how Samuelsson seems to play. Again, I like the shot first mentality. More often than not putting it on net is a good thing. Because he's not all that flashy like Datsyuk and because he isn't the most physical player out there though, it's hard to take a full liking to him. I usually come to the aid of Samuelsson, and scapegoats overall, when people just won't let go and realize Samuelsson or scapegoat to be named isn't all that bad. If he was that bad, he wouldn't be playing in the NHL or with the Red Wings. And to people that might give me grief about defending him, I just pointed a fair amount of detail of what I think are weaknesses in his game, so I'm trying to appease posters of all sides and parties here. However he has good qualities. Fairly solid defensively, likes to shoot, decent size which he could use some more but spreads it in game action every now and then, and he seems versatile enough that he could fit in on any line, though not being the main threat on any one of those lines. For $1.2 million he could be producing more but I seriously do not understand what more people want out of the guy outside of netting a few more goals every now and then, asking for SO MUCH MORE ALL THE TIME. Sometimes our expectations for players are unrealistic and we have to lower them. Sorry, but we do at times. So to close, I'm all up for talking about pros and cons of a player. But when people just blatantly go out and overreact with OMG SAMMY SUCKS ZOIKIES MOVE THAT GOOBER SOMEWHERE ELSE without suggesting who should replace him (no, a bag of pucks or your PlayStation2 trade on NHL 08 doesn't count as realistic alternatives). Without stating reasons why he stinks, or failing to even recognize some of his strengths overall or a good thing or two he's done in the current game for example, that's when I'm going to defend the guy. And it's especially stupid when people act like idiots and be stunned whenever he's scored or assisted on a goal like it's the first time he's ever done it since he was 3 years old. Guess what? It hasn't been his first time and he's capable of scoring/assisting. Don't act so over-the-top. He's not my favorite guy and I'd be all for trading him if it's a realistic scenario and all franchises would benefit. But he's not just 100% awful like some make him out to be and he's far from an absolute liability to this team and he's not costing the team much with his price tag.

I understand where you are coming from with your last couple of posts, but I got to re-emphasize J-Swift saying that you are setting the bar too high. 2.11 is good on any team and good for any 'tender in my mind regardless of if your team is great or stinks up the joint overall on defense. In my mind you typically have a GAA below 2.25, you are usually playing stellar. 2.25 - 2.50, you could certainly improve, but it's not like you are costing your team all that much at least on the surface when scoring overall is up since the trap days of the late 90s/early 00s and with the new rules (though not at a brisk pace obviously).

I'd hardly call a GAA of 2.11 mediocre. And while save percentage is a better indication I think, remember when he was only saving about 85 - 87% of his shots this season? Probably was even worse to start. Well now it's at .900 flat, and that seems to be a a fair standard to see if a goalie is doing well. Hasek can certainly improve on that, but where he started this season struggling with save percentage, he's certainly picked up his play to make it better over time. Sure a few shutouts can certainly make the numbers improve more quickly, but it's not like you go from saving 85% - 90% of shots in a season overnight, the same with your GAA going from 2.75 to 2.00.

It's kinda funny, but didn't the year Draper win it, he had his 20+ goal season? It seems that you still have to put up respectable offensive numbers to garner consideration. That being said though he should at the very least be a candidate as he has the offensive numbers and he leads the league in takeaways.

What's to stop Chris Chelios from walking when he's 80 years old? Hell what's to stop us from walking when we're 80 years old?

I thought I was the only one who was content with thinking about this and content with not making a 293 page essay on why Osgood is better than Hasek or why Hasek is better than Osgood.

Hardly. If anything Osgood is underrated. I'm not trying to make him out like he's the best goalie since Ken Dryden, but he's been really underappreciated throughout most of his career with Detroit/New York/St. Louis I think, although that's just my perception. Anyways, MVPs so far to me in this order. And keep in mind all these guys are playing solid so picking one over the other shouldn't mean I'm slighting somebody or not liking someone. 1. Lidstrom 2. Zetterberg 3. Osgood 4. Datsyuk 5. Rafalski

Hardly. While shots were down, I still found the pace high and whenever there were chances on both ends, the chances were good and the goaltending on both sides was spectacular.

All I'm gonna say is the Wings put on a clinic defensively those last 3 or 4 minutes after getting a bit sloppy before. And my man-love-o-meter for both Hasek and Osgood right now is off the charts. I want to give them both awkward bear hugs right now for playing so well...or probably something a little less expressive.

Super Mutant Goalie HaskGood to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!! All right it's Super Late () so that's the best I could come up with. Seriously, while it'd be unrealistic to expect the Wings to keep up this frantic pace all season, if the play of neither goalie doesn't drop off all that much, I wouldn't have a problem rotating them, even if such a method is generally frowned upon in hockey. Both of them are around the top of their games at the present moment, both have loads of experience in big games and don't get all that rattled mentally, both seem to be comfortable with their roles of not starting a majority of the games, but starting more than enough to stay fresh, both seem comfortable with the other (in the heterosexual non-perverted kinda way ). And a big for GMRWings for starting a goalie thread that actually doesn't go on to a flame war after 3 posts where we're ranting at each other saying OMG I'M A BIG OSGOOD FAN AND HASEK SUCKS OSGOOD IS GREAT or I'M A BIG HASEK FAN AND OSGOOD SUCKS HASEK IS GREAT, YOU ARE STOOPID IF YOU AREN'T AGREEING WITH ME (not that anybody in here in this thread is doing that of course ).

NHL Center Ice online. You can find info about it on NHL.com. It's not like watching games on TV, but you can hone in on 4 games at once if you want to go all out (only 1 game with sound though). You can focus in more on 1 game where that is the only game being watched on a larger screen, or you can expand that screen even further to full screen on your computer or laptop. Again, it's far from HD, but I've watched games on my laptop sometimes when I was on vacation or not home and it's pretty respectable looking. Not sure if it's reduced cost or not since half the season is done, but it might be worth your time to take a look.

One of the main reasons I don't even suggest trades and usually stay out of TRADE THIS PLAYER threads. Because more often than not, people seem to make suggestions based of video game GMing off of NHL video games on PlayStation or XBox. Well, real life trades are much more difficult. Also, I don't suggest trades because I'm not educated enough about a majority of the players on other teams, the nooks and crannies of salary cap structure and other teams needs within their cap, etc. etc. etc. A scenario of mine would probably sound just as stupid, if not more, as the PlayStation suggested trades. I don't know of any other players with NTC (I'm sure you can find it on here but I'm too lazy to look it up), but you can also assume or safely guess that other players are pretty much untradable even though they might not technically have the NTC tag. I.e. Lidstrom, Datsyuk, etc.

Nothing in detail that I can think of, and I'm not trying to slight any of them in any way or doubt them. They all have been playing very well lately obviously and I think we all know that they are very capable more often than not offensively. Somebody or a few people though will dry up offensively though. Again, it's nothing against any of them, people go in snags at time.

Hey, Mike Tyson bit an ear back in the day. LMAO BlueMonk at the bite me reference!

Dunno, my guess is Hasek didn't face enough shots or enough "quality" chances, however who judges quality deems that, or Ribeiro might just be a popular guy to pick or something. Not to take away from Hasek's performance at all because he was very solid. I don't really get all that worked up on 3-game star picks or snubs though, doesn't really matter to me. Anyways I took a quick and inexpensive flight to Dallas yesterday morning and made a day of it hanging out there catching the Wings game at American Airlines Arena and catching up with a few friends from college (went to school in nearby Fort Worth). Not the first time I've been in the arena, I actually prefer where they used to play in old Reunion Arena. It's definitely nicer/more modern than Reuinon, but I liked the basic bowl shape of Reunion and that place could get really loud, really quick. Wasn't really a pretty game, more of a grind-it-out sluggish event, but I don't really care if the Wings win 9-5 or 2-1, they still won. I'm not really a rah-rah cheery kinda person or one that yells his lungs out at games, but it was hard to intially get into the game, even after the 1st goal. It just seemed to take forever for both teams to get to full speed. Nevertheless, overall it was a great team effort where pretty much every player on the ice played a solid game and the Wings really had very few errors at all (other than a giveaway on a PP). Dallas is a struggling team right now from what it seems but it's still nice to know that you pretty much came close to dominating the 2nd best team in your conference. The game was also cool for me because I bought a ticket in the upper deck for only $15 b/f shipping/handling, but I chatted with puckloo39 for a few minutes before the game started where they were sitting and the people that were supposed to sit next to them never showed, so I sat probably 15 rows from ice level near center ice. Game 'twas also good because I've never seen a shutout by the Wings and I know she was happy to see her favorite player perform well.

Ooooooookay....... Anyways, right now the Wings are fortunate to have some flexibility to do such things. I'd like to see Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom back together eventually, because (and sorry for sounding like I'm spoiling the happy party) they can't expect secondary scoring to always be there like it has been lately. It's a catch-22 though, you can't just rely on one line all the time either, even one such as good as 40-13-96. I think that line gives the Wings the best chances of success on offense, but right now when (for the most part) scoring hasn't been too much of a problem lately, I'm content with having the two split up. Once Holmstrom gets back though, you'll never seen them intentionally split up on power plays.

War - Low Rider

You won't go wrong with the NHL Network. While I don't watch it religiously (I don't really watch much TV outside of live sporting events or an infrequent movie), I've seen it enough to enjoy it...in-depth highlights (i.e. more than 30 seconds) and they just go straight to the local feed for whatever games they broadcast. And while I've never watched any, it does show minor league games on occasion. Plenty of past series as well in terms of stars/legends, memorable moments, etc. I only have had a problem with it once where my local cable company lost the feed for it during a Wings-Kings game recently. They didn't get it fixed in time for the game, but got it rolling the following day and it's working like normal now. Frustrating obviously, but what can you do though, stuff happens sometimes in customer service that is beyond my or their control. I'm usually understanding and willing to be patient with stuff like this. While it should (and usually is close to 100%) be close to 100% online/working all the time, there's going to be a breakdown sometimes, hopefully just very infrequently like in my case. The only thing that stinks about the NHL Network is for those who can't get it (much like the Versus debacle), games on NHL Network are blacked out on Center Ice, which really stinks cause both stations are still struggling for availability overall. I am fortunate to have both stations.

My non-scientific grades up to this point, short and sweet. Keep in mind this is just one idiotic fan's opinion. Lilja - C+ Lidstrom - A+ Ellis - B- Cleary - A Datsyuk - A+ Meech - B- (probably should be more of an incomplete since he hasn't played much) Drake - C- Maltby - B (up to the point until to where he got injured and is still out) Downey - B Lebda - C Chelios - B Hudler - B+ Rafalski - A+ Osgood - A+ Draper - B+ Samuelsson - C Hasek - B Zetterberg - A+ Hartigan - B/Incomplete Filppula - A- Kronwall - B Kopecky - C+ Franzen - B Holmstrom - A

There's no conspiracies or hiding behind the problem for any team. Sorry if this comes out in a bad way, but attendance problems is a league-wide dilemma for a majority of franchises in the NBA and NHL. It's not just in Detroit. The NBA Hornets down here where I am from have barely sold any of their games out this season, only one that I can accurately recall.

Won't hear that from me even though I'm a big LSU fan. As stated again, I'm sick and tired of the SEC/Big 10 comparisons and both teams have multiple solid programs (yes I know I'm not any fun ). I'm tired of everybody humping everybody's jock strap in the SEC. It's a great conference, WE GET IT (not ranting at anybody in here ). So is the Big 10. Either school winning/losing the championship game on the field doesn't slight either conference in any way.

Apologize if I type over anybody's thoughts already but here's my info... While I wish the Wings could have performed better against their own division so far, in the overall perspective so far this season we still couldn't ask for much/anything more. In the grand scheme of things, the Wings have been ridiculously good. The Wings have added some more toughness and guys willing to stand up for players in a more primary role in Drake and Downey. Perhaps not the greatest and elite and doing such things but the way people have moaned and yelled about this forever, whether it's legit or overdramatized, it's definitely better than nothing. The big three on offense have been performing splendidly, same as Lidstrom. Albeit from a brainfart pass every now and again, Rafalski has definitely been worth the signing, espeically on the powerplay. Secondary scoring took a while, but it's going really well now in Rex and Flipper and Cleary now Franzen a bit. Hopefully this can keep up and Samuelsson can get himself going more consistently and they will be really tough to be offensively. Osgood has performed phenomenal when Hasek was struggling early and hasn't dropped his play at all. And Hasek has gotten going recently as well. They have two very capable goaltenders presently that can play a major part in determining the Wings success in the postseason (much more positively than negatively I think). Overall, I'm fairly content with the defense, but it wouldn't hurt to not necessarily add a bruiser, but somewhere from a 3rd - 5th guy on defense who isn't afraid to throw his body around (if realisitc within the salary cap and such, sorry I'm not good with names and suggestions). They have the same mojo as last year's team late in the season and playoffs I think. A team that won't necessarily dominate you physically or continously initiate contact and checks, but they bust their behinds off and skate hard, and will not back down from anybody and aren't afraid to match people in the checking/physical department. The roster does not need to be tinkered with all that much, if at all. It wouldn't hurt to add a defenseman as I stated above or another guy who is fit to score goals every now and again in a 2nd/3rd line role. Again though, not much (if any) patchwork needs to be done on the roster. The only thing I worry about in the playoffs is running into the hot goalie syndrome, because at least for now (sorry if I sound too confident or arrogant) think it would be difficult to pick 1 team to beat the Red Wings consistently in a 7-game series. Obviously though much still needs to be determined on the ice and I cautiously am optimistic.