kipwinger

This isn't the first time I've seen Johansson do this either. He threw a lot of big hits in the SHL playoffs last year too.

Agreed, Edvinsson needs some time in GR. His defensive game is on point, but his offensive game lacks maturity and he needs to work on his shot. Of the two I'd say Albert Johansson is more NHL ready to be honest. I love that guy.

You realize Svech has a two-way contract from SJ right?

Svechnikov sucks man. Sorry to break it to you. Cholowski and Frk continue to find work as well, who cares?

Edit: So far this game Kasper has a goal, assist, awesome penalty kill, and he just took a roughing penalty lol. Love this dude.

Marco Kasper with a goal and an assist in the first period of a Champions League game today. I'm a huge fan of the Champion's League, it's a really fun concept.

While I could probably quibble with a few of these totals, I think you're generally in the ballpark on most of it. I don't think scoring is going to be our issue. I think our defense is still league average (at best) and our special teams still need a TON of work. That's the difference between us being a playoff contender and us being middle of the pack. I can easily see a reality in which we're better than Boston and competitive with Toronto, but I can also see a world where we can't score on the powerplay and lose a lot of close games that matter.

This week Corey Pronman of The Athletic is releasing his organizational depth rankings (Top 15 under 23, plus honorable mentions). He's already introduced all the way up to the top 10. Detroit still has yet to be unveiled. So...our top 15 under 23? My picks 1. Seider 2. Raymond 3. Edvinsson 4. Berggren 5. Sodorblom 6. Kasper 7.Rasmussen 8. Zadina 9. Veleno 10. Johansson 11. Wallinder 12. Andreasson 13. Mazur 14. Buium 15. Neiderbach Honorable Mentions: Sebrango, Viro, Cossa

This is going to be a pretty fun lineup for the Prospect Tournament. Our defense will be nasty.

Take it with a grain of salt, but so far today (in pre-season action) Marco Kasper has two goals and Buchelnikov has one. Kasper is starting to remind me a lot of Zetterberg (but with better skating). He's not flashy at all, but the offense is there anyway because he's got good fundamental skills to go along with the fact that he's very smart and works his tail off.

Also odd to see Berggren so low. The guy has done nothing but dominate two of the hardest leagues in the world the last two seasons. Finished the season with 10 multi point outings in this last 13 games a year ago.

Buium over Johansson and Wallinder? That's an interesting take from Pronman considering how good both those guys were in the SHL last year. I definitely get the impression that he doesn't fully understand how hard it is to score in that league because he still sleeps on the offensive ability of guys in the SHL.

It goes without saying, but recency bias will be a thing in Pronman's rankings, so despite the fact that we've got 21-22 year olds tearing up professional leagues he'll surely put someone like Cossa ahead of someone like Berggren because he's newer and was drafted in the first round.

Insanely deep. I like Lombardi a lot too. He's definitely the prospect I'm most excited to follow this season (next to Kasper). If we can come out of this last draft with two higher-end centers I'd be absolutely pumped.

I might be forgetting one or two people...

Good catch on the bolded. In that case I'd drop Ras and Andreasson (the only 23 year olds I had) and add Cossa and Sebrango to the end of my list.

I don't agree. Coaches use players situationally. Larkin can't play 30 minutes a night and neither Veleno nor Suter can defend well. So by default Rasmussen had to be used in those situations. If Luke Glendening was still on the team I'd agree Ras would have the opportunity to be used in more offensive situations. He probably will THIS year to be honest. But last year he was pretty much stuck doing the heavy defensive work because there wasn't anyone else. I presume Ras was drafted to be a top six power forward. Most teams don't use top ten picks on bottom six shutdown guys, but maybe I'm wrong. Holland was a dipsh*t after all.

The point was that we don't have many centers, and because of that Ras was forced to play a role (shutdown center) that he was not drafted for, which demands tougher zone starts, and generally pairs him with less offensively capable wingers. Conversely, because we are deeper on the wing Zadina largely played the EXACT role he was drafted for (scoring line winger) and sucked pretty badly. Fun Fact: Despite being drafted a year earlier, Ras is only 6 months older than Zadina and has only played 20 more NHL games. There is not some massive difference in their development. I might even argue that Ras's development was more impacted because he was NOT capable of going to the AHL in his D+1 year (unlike Zadina) because of the CHL/NHL agreement, and he dealt with significant injuries early in his pro-career.

The difference is even more pronounced when you factor in the powerplay. Ras had two powerplay points (out of 27 total points), both assists. Zadina had 8 powerplay points (out of 24 total points), 4 goals and 4 assists. So Ras, despite being pinned into the d-zone roughly 100 more shifts per season, still outscored Zadina at even strength by a sizeable margin.

I doubt management is "higher" on Zadina. Of the two he's the only one that was healthy scratched (several times) last season. Additionally, of the two Zadina was the one called out (by name) by Yzerman this offseason as a player who needed to take a big step next year. The reasons Zadina gets better linemates are probably several. One, we're extremely thin at center in the NHL and Yzerman and Blashill both routinely stated that they viewed Ras as a shutdown center and used him as such until late last season. Rasmussen started in the offensive zone less than any other regular on the team by a pretty sizeable margin. He was absolutely buried in the d-zone largely because of his perceived "role" as a shutdown center. Second, if you look at Ras's goals from last season you'll quickly notice he generates much of it himself. He's less reliant on his linemates. Seriously, watch how many times he beats a goalie clean on an oddman rush with Sundqvist or Erne as the other guy. Third, Zadina is extremely limited defensively and can only be used safely in offensive situations. The same thing is true of Suter and Fabbri (his two most common linemates last season). All of them rate out quite badly in terms of defensive metrics. So they got used on the offensive zone a lot with the expectation that it would limit their defensive lapses and maximize their strengths. Conversely, Ras's scoring came largely despite his usage. and he still managed more goals, points, and primary assists than Zadina.

You can almost guarantee he'll be on the development staff at some point in the near future. He's a ride or die Red Wing company man and they'll reward him accordingly. I've never been a bit bothered by having Lashoff in GR. I think 99% of all prospects need some time learning how to be a pro hockey player in a minor league, regardless of their skill level. And guys like Lashoff are the ones who teach them how to do it.

Like what? Btw Ras is doing all that in fewer minutes, more defensive situations, and worse line mates. Zadinas does less while being force fed premium minutes.

Not true at all. I was suggesting that if your most compelling argument in favor of Zadina is "he's cheap" then there are other cheap options on entry level contracts. If you're arguing that he actually played well and therefore deserves opportunity I'd counter with the fact that based on their performances last year ALL of Raymond, Bertuzzi, Vrana, Perron, Kubalik, Fabbri, Rasmussen, and Sundqvist are more deserving of ice time than Zadina. So I guess I'll agree that right now you can pencil him onto your 4th line. Except that he's bad defensively and on special teams so he's not really a fit there (and everyone would complain that it's setting him up for failure). So where do you put the "scorer who doesn't score"? My guess is you want him playing higher in the lineup and on special teams yeah? Again, what exactly did he ever do to earn those premium minutes? This Zadina thing reminds me so much of Teemu Pulkkinen. Prolific junior scorer who couldn't score in the NHL because he sucked, but everyone was POSITIVE that is was the coach/icetime/usage/linemates etc. So we hung onto him forever, until the whole world could see he sucked, and never got a single thing for all that "asset management".

Why should he get "one more chance"? What has he done to earn anything? How's he been good? So far his career trajectory is closer to Tomas Jurco than it is to a legit top six forward. He's been given AMPLE chances to succeed. Certainly more than he'll get now that we have a competitive roster. And you act like he's the ONLY asset we need to manage. There are other, more important, things for this team to do than move heaven and earth to jumpstart a pud. Michael Rasmuseen, for instance, had more goals, points, and primary assists than Zadina despite playing fewer (and harder) minutes. Yet I don't see the Zadina crowd clamboring for Ras to get more of Zadina's opportinities? Why? Here's what I'd do with him. Offer him a million dollars on a one year deal. Let him know he's competing for a roster spot in training camp. And that includes fourth line duties since he can't score and is supposedly "good" defensively. If he gets outplayed by 8 other wingers, wave him. If he gets outplayed by 6 other wingers, put him on the fourth line until he actually earns something. But what I absolutely would not do is spend a single additional second trying to drag another Holland Era loser to productivity at the expense of the team.

Agreed. So basically you're saying "Zadina's cheap, can fill the 3W spot, and still has some upside"? I'm saying Berggren is CHEAPER, can fill the 3W spot, and has upside. So does Sodorblom. Fabbri isn't cheap, but he's under contract nonetheless and has show he can outproduce Zadina after two knees surgeries. Why not after three? We don't have PERFECT options. But we have options that are just as good. So I have to wonder why Zadina is everyone's pet project yet again? I've never seen a fan base over-inflate a bad player so egregiously. He got outscored by Suter, Fabbri, Ras, Namestnikov, Hronek, and Gagner last year despite getting more favorable usage than ANY of those guys. He SUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKS. Edit: Noted offensive juggernaut Oskar Sundqvist had a significantly higher points per gave average than Zadina too, just for those keeping track of how badly that dude blows.