kipwinger

Your entire rationale for keeping him is that he's cheap and not absolutely terrible. I'm just saying there are other player who could occupy that roster spot who are cheaper and also probably not absolutely terrible. Lol @ Zadina scoring 40 points. He won't sniff the top six this year and will get limited powerplay time. We all saw how bad he sucked with Suter and Fabbri last year but you're expecting him to score MORE with Suter and Kubalik in FEWER minutes? Not likely.

Carter Mazur is f*cking awesome and will make everyone forget about Bertuzzi after he demands a trade in 6 months

I’m confused by the “sure he’s not great but he’s cheap, re-sign him” crowd. You know who projects as a 3W and is cheaper? Berggren. Sodorblom. Andreasson. If Zadina’s only value is that he’s cheap, there are cheaper players who potentially could suck just as much no? Or are we pretending he’s cheap AND kinda good now?

I do. He's bad, not getting better, not likely to get more opportunity than he had a year ago, and eating up a roster spot. I'd rather have Berggren/Fabbri/Sodorblom in that spot. Our farm system is really deep. We are no longer in a position where roster spots are gifted to scrubs just because nobody else wants to play for us and we have no talented prospects. I don't see any rationale for keeping a loser in your middle six just because he's cheap. I also don't think you're right that GMs value guys like him because they're young and have upside. Look at all the players who are better than Zadina who went unqualified the last couple offseasons?

Most players said the same thing about Yzerman. Apparently he very rarely addressed the team during his time as Captain. In Yzerman's "NHL 100" video package Brendan Shanahan (and I think McCarty) explicitly talks about this too.

I don't think the point was the nationality. I think the point is that the leagues are better. Zadina, or instance, came to the CHL to play and I think you could argue he was trained badly. Might have been better off training in a Euro men's league. Svechnikov, same story. I think the CHL is trash, they just succeed because they have the best talent pool. I also think the CHL agreement keeps guys in their leagues longer than some of them should be. Plenty of instances in which guys are rushed to the NHL too early because they're too good for the CHL and can't go to the AHL.

It definitely makes me wonder why he did, given his apparently preference for SHL talent.

Yzerman knows something (else) that Holland didn't. Canadian Junior hockey leagues aren't producing the best NHL caliber prospects anymore. There's been a noticeable shift away from the CHL to the SHL and USHL under Yzerman. https://detroithockeynow.com/2022/08/13/anatomy-of-the-yzerplan-holland-vs-yzerman-red-wings-drafts/

Tired: Good looking, clean cut, square jawed, Canadian puds. Wired: Beady-eyed, slack jawed, mullet sporting, American winners. https://detroithockeynow.com/2022/08/12/carter-mazur-three-points-usa-wjc-detroit-red-wings-prospect-denver/

I agree with a lot of what you're saying but I have some issue with the bolded. You're making it seem like he's been dealt a bad hand and he's out there making the best of it. But that's not really the case. He's been dealt a pretty good hand (top six, offensive zone starts, powerplay time) and consistently done nothing with it. He's never had to earn opportunity in the same way that Joe Veleno (for instance) has. So of course he's been a good teammate/had a good attitude. Look at how everyone talks about him. When he sucks the entire conversation revolves around "how can we change the entire lineup of the team to get Zadina going". It's never "Zadina needs to work his way up from the fourth line through his play". The same thing used to happen with Brendan Smith. Without a hint of irony his slappies all thought he should play with Lidstrom/Kronwall to "get him going" without ever considering whether it was good for the team to have a loser on their top pairing.

Zadina, in particular, was given all the ice time a guy could ever want last season. Lots of games in the top six. Played with Larkin, Bert, Fabbri, Raymond, Vrana, Suter. Power play time. Favorable zone starts. His issue isn't lack of opportunity. His issue is that he blows. He's Mikael Samuelsson 2.0. I'm not trying to air you out or anything, I've just noticed this narrative emerging that Zadina needs more opportunity to succeed. But he's had the opportunity and has been routinely outplayed by guys with the same chances (or less). This year he'll probably start on the 3rd line with Suter and Kubalik against inferior competition and given 2nd powerplay duties. If he fails to make an impact I presume he'll be traded/not qualified.

I might be mistaken, but I think it depends on the league. For almost all Euros the rules are the same as they are for North American players. But in the case of Russians I think the team retains their rights longer. I'm not sure if it's forever, but longer. I remember the Wings still owned Alexander Kadeykin's rights a few years ago when he was still well into his mid-20s.

I'm genuinely confused, who are you talking about here?

I think he'll make the Red Wings, but if he does go to GR I'm not gonna be angry. Defense is a hard position to learn to play correctly, even for top guys like him. Seider spent two years developing (if only because of the pandemic) and I think he's probably better because of it. Edvinsson still needs to work on his shot as well, so GR would give him a lot of reps doing that.

Edvinsson played 26 minutes lol. What a monster.

What are you talking about? I don't remember Franz Nielsen's contract aging badly after he was signed long term at the age of 31.

I'm in an awkward position here because I generally agree with you that his performance wasn't what you'd expect last season, but it was by no means "bad". His final stats in the WHL were solid, just not spectacular, during the regular season. During the playoffs he was a beast, and that's important because it's the playoffs, there are no bad teams to inflate your stats. Then he was great again during the Memorial Cup. The Red Wings event you're thinking of is the prospect tournament. He wasn't great at that event, I agree, but he was the youngest goalie there. He had just been drafted and got lit up by guys who were a few years older, some of whom are playing in professional leagues already. I'm not too beat up about it. You're also a little off base about the WJC. He didn't play, not because he was awful (he wouldn't have made the team if he was bad) but because Dylan Garand (who is a full year older than Cossa) had a monster season last year. He was the CHL goalie of the year. Canada went with the older, hotter, goalie. That's not uncommon, they always put older players in those positions. Remember when Joe Veleno was their 1C for the WJC despite never, ever, being the best center Canada had on their WJC roster? Me too. I don't know enough about Wallstedt to say he'll be elite. If you think so I'll defer to your judgement. I definitely want Cossa to be more consistent with his performance as well. So I'm with you on the fact that he's under performed. But goalies do A LOT of developing post-draft. Most don't even sniff the NHL until they're 23-25 years old. Igor Shesterkin, for example, developed for 5 years before he even got a cup of coffee in the NHL. Yaroslav Askarov is now in the draft+4 year, has been abysmal in international play, and was never a starter in the KHL despite being one of the top goalie prospects of the last 10 years. He'll compete for a starting job in the AHL this season. My point is, it's a little early to tell how Cossa is going to develop, but I agree that Wallstedt is obviously ahead of him at this point and looks to be the better player overall thus far.

I'd agree with some of this. But you're misrepresenting some things too. He was awesome to start and end last season. He had 5 shutouts and a 1.9 GAA in 19 playoff games? He just sucked during the middle of the season. He didn't play in any tournament games during the WJC in December. Also, there was no development camp last year. It was canceled as a result of the pandemic for two years. But all in all I think most reasonable fans agree that his performance isn't what we had hoped for when he was drafted, and given that there was another premium goalie available there will always be a bit of buyer's remorse if Wallstedt turns out better. I'm still not overly concerned until he starts getting lit up after having a year or two of pro-hockey coaching. I think he needs some mechanical tweaking to his game, but otherwise I still think he'll be fine. The next two years will be good for him. Hopefully it will give him a chance to work on his game without the pressure of having to go out and be "the man" every single night.

Sebrango will have a really hard time making this team as we continue to improve. There is still a place in the league for one-way defensive specialists, but typically guys like that aren't in high demand by good teams (see: Olli Maatta). Sebrango is a lefty, he's obviously not as good on either side of the puck as Seider, he's not as offensive as Johansson (likely PP specialist), and so he'll have to try to compete with guys like Wallinder, Buium, or McIsaac for a job. Is he so much better defensively than them that their clear advantage in the offensive zone is nullified? I doubt it.

He's a clown. Not like your boy Pronman though. That dude totally nailed the draft. Literally the only media type out there that predicted Wright falling to 4th. He had Slafkovsky, Jiricek, Cooley, Wright. Pretty solid analysis by Corey there, you have to admit?

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree. I'm not fan of Hughes and was very critical of the hype around him on draft day. I agree that unless he bulks up and learns to play a little tougher he'll get dominated by dudes like Dylan Larkin his whole career. I think he's basically a smaller Mark Scheifele. But I think many GMs still take that risk on draft day if they think they're getting a point per game center.

I don't think that Seider is obviously better than Jack Hughes, but I don't think anyone else in the draft class is going before either of them in a re-draft at this point. A point per game center and a top of the league #1 defenseman aren't getting passed over for "flashy top line center who's not as offensively gifted as Hughes and doesn't do anything else particularly well".

And the hits just keep on coming with Scott Wheeler. Today Scott Wheeler re-drafted the 2019 NHL draft. 1. Jack Hughes 2. Trevor Zegras 3. Moritz Seider 4. Matt Boldy 5. Cole Caufield Why (might you ask) is Seider behind Zegras? Because Zegras is "already one of the faces of this sport". I've said before and I'll say again, I hope to one day love anything as much as hockey writers love "the Michigan". Literal children (and guys in wheelchairs too!) do it ever single season, but let one NHL player do it and you'd think they had unlocked the key to nuclear fusion. There are probably not 5 GMs in the league that would rather have Zegras right now over Seider. I'd say it's 50/50 with Seider and Hughes. What a clown.

I mean, if he went I wouldn't be mad. I'm already looking forward to watching Edvinsson and Wallinder dominate. Watching Kasper do the same would just give me a reason to watch more games. But I'm good either way. Like I said, he did well in tougher games last year and is poised for a big increase in icetime this season. The big things I wanna see from him are A) playing primarily at center instead of wing, B) seeing a sustained increase in ice time, and C) scoring at a similar rate to Lucas Raymond's D+1 season in the SHL. If he does that then irrespective of his final numbers I'll be (even more) confident that he's going to produce in the NHL.