kipwinger

To Minnesota: Leddy, Veleno, 2022 1st Round Pick To Detroit: Dumba, Zuccarello, Marco Rossi THEN: To Colorado: Dumba (50% retained), Zuccarello (50% retained) + 3rd To Det: Samuel Girard Bert-Larkin-Raymond Zadina-Rossi-Vrana Fabbri-Suter-Berggren Erne-Ras-Pearson Edvinssson-Hronek Girardi-Seider Wallinder/Johansson/Buium - Lindstrom Ned/Cossa

I really don't want picks as the center part of these trades though. At a certain point you have to start building and not trading anything that's not nailed down for guys who may or may not be any good 3-4 years down the road (typical timeline for late 1st/2nd round picks). I'd rather we look to established young guys who are on teams that are either A) up against the cap and need to offer better returns for cap relief, or B) too deep to give these guys a bigger role. I think Yzerman likes Larkin, Bert, Fabbri, and (maybe) Vrana and Hronek as the older leadership group on the team. As good as we've played this year I don't see him moving any of these guys. I can envision a world in which we're competing for Cups with the guys mentioned above as our 28-31 year old veteran leaders and Raymond, Seider, Edvinsson, and Cossa are our stud young guns. But we still need to add a center who fits one of the two age groups.

Just a thought I had but, Minnesota is really up against it this year. They're good enough to make the playoffs, and maybe even make splash, but they really can't take on any salary and actually need to shed a bunch of salary by next year because of the Parise and Suter buyouts. So.. To Minn: Leddy (50% retained) To Det: Dumba (No money retained) and Marat Khusnutdinov This should appeal to Minnesota because A) they'll replace Dumba's offense and have 3.5 million more to add another piece should they choose to, B) Moving Dumba (and letting Leddy walk in the offseason) alleviates their cap issues next year by 6 million, C) They'd only be losing their 2nd best center prospect. It should appeal to Detroit because A) We'd get a top end center prospect (Leading the KHL in U20 scoring), and B) We could turn around and flip Dumba for additional pieces this year or next. Edit: Or do the some to Edmonton Edm: Leddy (50% retained) Det: Tyson Barrie + Dylan Holloway

Not that I've seen so far. I do see that DeBrusk has had two pretty bad seasons in a row so you'd have to think the asking price is at an all time low despite his really solid production the three years before that. I don't really know anything about this guy, except that when I look at his highlights I immediately recognize how many of his points come from deflections and rebounds. Seems like he'd be a good get for that alone.

Red Wings are on of many team rumored to be interested in Jake DeBrusk: https://www.thefourthperiod.com/dec-2021/several-teams-interested-in-debrusk#.Yaeq1LpJEfQ.twitter

The only thing you're missing is a reference to Bobby Orr that doesn't make any sense within the context of the discussion. I mean, you're right. But I have my own assh*le grandpa for that.

Was he? I always thought of him as the Grandpa Simpson shaking fist at cloud meme. He was just nonsensically contrarian.

The dumbest comment in all of sports has to be “player/team didn’t want the goal/win tonight”. If you ever find yourself thinking that a professional athlete doesn’t want to win you’re a f*cking dumb dumb.

Lol

Nice pass by Suter, nice finish by Zadina.

If money had a dick Darren McCarty would be the gayest man on earth.

Fabbri with two solid checks in one shift. Wrecking shop son!

I appreciate that he’s basically the Chris Jericho of announcers, but maaaaaan I wish he’d tone it down a bit.

Jesus, the best stream I can find is a Bruins stream. I have to listen to Jack Edwards for the next three hours. He started the telecast calling Marchand’s infraction an “alleged slew foot”. Lol.

In other news, Jack Hughes gifted an 8 year, 8 million dollar contract after scoring 55 points in 119 NHL games. Pretty ballsy of the NJ front office.

LOL

Nah, I misspoke. It's obviously Blashill's fault.

I'm gonna need this kid to stop making me look like an *******. Also I'm gonna need to know what kind of Matrix type sh*t allowed that shot to get through.

I actually think he could be a real asset as a solid defensive winger who can gain/maintain possession and compliment more skilled offensive guys in the top six. Ideally we'll upgrade from Suter as the 2C (he'd be a good 3C) and find a playmaker to pair with Vrana. When that happens I wouldn't mind Zadina being the "other guy". I think a Roslovic/Mittelstadt/Newhook type with Vrana and Zadina would be a hellish good scoring line and Zadina's possession game would be absolutely necessary when playing with two less defensively inclined guys like that. And obviously you'd imagine his production would increase by virtue of playing with more talented offensive players as well.

Random powerplay thought: Didn't Erne score a bunch of his goals last year from the bumper spot on the powerplay? I think he did. I wouldn't be pissed if he was given a chance at the role on the 2nd unit. Top Unit: Bert Raymond-Larkin-Vrana Seider 2nd Unit: Ras Suter-Erne-Zadina Leddy/Hronek

I'm not sure if you're being partially serious or not so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I've never advocated trading, waiving, or benching Zadina. So I'm not sure why you think he's "only getting 2". I think he should be on a third line OR playing opposite someone like Vrana so that at least one player on the line can make good use of all the offensive zone time Zadina helps create. Also, if we're comparing Zadina to Mikael Samuelsson now then I think the "Is he a bust" debate has pretty much reached it's logical conclusion.

I actually give him credit there. Our powerplay is up to 15% from 11% last year, and our overall offense is middle of the league, up from dead last at the end of last season. A couple of factors, obviously personnel makes a difference. We added two top four defensemen, a top six forward, a goalie that can play the puck, and got a bunch of guys healthy. Second, we're still only 20 games into this season so there's a lot of room for the offensive numbers to rise and fall. Based on my viewings I fully expect the PP to continue to get better though. Tanguay's system is WAY different than Bylsma's. MUCH more dynamic. I think it's going to take a while for guys to be fully comfortable. Also, the personnel on the two units has switched around quite a bit. I expect Seider to continue to improve personally in the QB role, and the top unit to improve overall when Vrana comes back.

I'm probably not being precise enough with my language. A player can definitely be good without scoring. But within the context of the "Is Zadina a Bust" debate, it's probably not good asset management if a rebuilding team uses a top ten pick (passing on guys like Quinn Hughes) for a defensively responsible winger with finishing issues (see what I did there?). I'm not the authority, but I do think the value of the pick you used on a guy vs. the type of player he turns into makes a difference. For example, if we used two high end picks to trade up for Sebastian Cossa and he turns into a Jonathan Bernier type goalie I'm not going to say it was a solid pick just because he's a middle of the road player in the league for a bunch of years. You certainly expect those types of assets to yield greater results. Would that make him a bust? I dunno, but I'd venture to guess that almost nobody on LGW would take Zadina in a redraft, and that probably says something about the pick vs. his performance to date.

So is Alex Tanguay pretty much a guarantee for the next coach then?

Both are true. I just listened to an episode of the Winged Wheel Pod (they LOVE Zadina) and they had this analytics guy (Micah Blake McCurdy from Hockey Viz) talking about all things fancy stats. As they tend to do they immediately started discussing how Zadina was this really good player and was just snake bitten (they say he has the yips) and asked if he agreed. He did and didn't. According to this guy, Zadina's defensive and possession metrics are good and he definitely tilts the ice in Detroit's favor. But he's not an unlucky offensive player (doesn't have the zips!). He's just a really bad shooter who can't finish on the chances he creates. His shot selection is really bad, and even when he's in prime scoring position his finishing is really bad relative to this rest of the league. According to this guy, Zadina's rookie season is more an outlier than the norm. This tracks with what other analytics folks conclude about Zadina. A couple takeaways: 1. Zadina's not too young, or too underdeveloped, or to unlucky, or whatever. He's just not very good right now. 2. The thing he's not good at (shooting) is one of the easier things to improve at, so there's still room for some improvement in his finishing (though probably not his shot selection). This should be encouraging to a point, but even with a pretty dramatic increase in his shooting percentage we're really not looking at anything better than a Tatar level winger here. Not bad, but definitely not what you're hoping for with a top ten pick.