kipwinger

Sure, the picks could obviously bust. Totally agree. My bigger point is that Vrana and Mantha basically produce at about the same rates at the same points in their respective careers. If the trade was one for one I'd have been happy with it because A) Mantha is a p*ssy, and B) Vrana still an RFA. But when you throw in the picks AND a useful depth player I really DO think it's a massive win. As far as the bolded, I don't agree. Washington's 3rd line isn't loaded with super talented guys. Dylan Larkin and Tyler Bertuzzi (and to a lesser degree Fabbri and Zadina) are MUCH better than anybody Vrana's regularly played with. The team overall is worse, but his linemates are about to improve dramatically from guys like Brett Connolly, Lars Eller, Devonte Smith-Pely, and Carl Hagelin. Hard to say what Blash does with Vrana, but if you literally plugged Vrana into all Mantha's existing roles I genuinely believe he out produces Mantha on the Red Wings. Which is not to say Mantha is going to bust in Washington. He's going to score a ton. But we basically replaced (or improved upon) his production and got premium assets too. Plus we got rid of a big, lazy, b*tch on top of it.

You're making my point for me. Mantha's production is heavily dependent on his TOI, Vrana's hasn't been. The minute Mantha's TOI drops his production dips. His TOI in all situations will go down in Washington where he's not "the guy". Meanwhile Vrana's TOI in all situations is about to go up, and he's already produced at Mantha levels (or better) without the ice time. And I don't agree that Vrana was "sheltered". Pretty hard to displace Backstrom as the primary playmaker on the Caps powerplay. He'll fill that role in Detroit. Similarly, it's not been an easy task cracking Washington's top six the last few years. I don't know that he's been "sheltered" as much as he's been the young guy on a veteran team. Washington did the EXACT same thing with Burakovsky. Then they traded him to Colorado and he blew up. I'm expecting the same from Vrana

FWIW Yzerman drafted him and was supposedly inquiring about him after he was waived early this season. Then Marc Staal said in an interview that a bunch of Red Wings were asking him about DeAngelo. So I don't think it's impossible that he's a Red Wing by next season. Don't know how I feel about that, but it seems like it could happen.

I love this trade. Having watched a TON of Capitals hockey over the last 5 years I'll give you my take. Basically... I don't agree with your assessment of Vrana. In the last two years he's scored 36 goals in 108 games. Good for 3rd on the Capitals behind Ovechkin and Oshie. 35 of those goals came at even strength. He also did this despite significantly lower even strength ice time than most of Washington's regular forwards. During those same two years he had 15 powerplay assists despite being on Washington's 2nd powerplay unit. If you watch the Capitals you'll realize that they rarely give time to their 2nd unit, and if they do it's not much. The reality is that Mantha relies more heavily on the powerplay for his production than Vrana does. Vrana is a much better even strength goal scorer and he's about to see a sizeable increase in ice time with a top center (his best center previously was Lars Eller). Plus now that he's on a top powerplay unit he's likely to see a significant increase in PP ice time, which is good for Detroit (and Vrana's stat line) because he's a great powerplay passer and the first legit playmaker we've had off the half wall since Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Vrana's warts are these: He's not super defensively responsible, and he's not super physical. It's legitimate to wonder how he'll handle better competition that comes with increased icetime, but with that said he's not Andreas Athanasiou either. He's more competitive and responsible than THAT. FWIW he's also been one of Washington's better possession forwards over the last two years. I think we actually got the better player here, he just needed to not be buried down lineup. Especially when you consider Mantha is likely to take a hit in icetime. This will hurt especially bad on the powerplay because his usual spot is occupied by a playmaker in Washington's system (typically Backstrom or Kuznetsov). He'll be the shooter on the second powerplay, and as I've already mentioned that unit doesn't get the same icetime that Mantha was getting in Detroit. Edit: Final thought. I'm pumped about the 1st too. I think Washington is getting bounced early. Nobody on that team gives a sh*t anymore and it's evident. They won their Cup and now they're content to go as far as their talent takes them without doing the hard work. They're primed to get beat by some hardworking up and coming team. I don't see them making past the 2nd round and maybe they get bounced in the first depending on their matchup.

2002

I'm not sure I agree. While he hasn't scored a lot this year, off the top of my head I can think of at least two of his assists (in one game) were on plays were he forecheck hard, stripped the puck from the opposition, and made plays to find open teammates for goals. Tatar probably will have the better career, or at least the odds suggest he will, but that belies just how good Tatar is. He's consistently underrated. The guy's a 20/50 guy every year like clockwork, plays in all three zones, and is a possession monster. He's a better winger that probably 85% of the NHL.

Hell, if Larkin and AA can score 30 I don't see why he couldn't. Especially if he's with a playmaker as you said. Imagine him with a Trevor Zegras level passer for the next few years. That's why I like Kent Johnson in this year's draft. He's the only center with that kind of offensive creativity. I suspect if we draft a center though it will be Beniers or Eklund. Kris Draper said he "knows what a Red Wing looks like" and these days that looks a lot more like Zetterberg than it does Yzerman, or Fedorov, or Datsyuk apparently.

I'm actually growing fond of Zadina. I don't think he's going to be a stud offensive player, but I'm really liking how he's committed himself to puck retrieval on the forecheck. I'd be thrilled if he modeled his game off Mark Stone. Or Tomas Tatar is probably the poor man's version. 20ish goals, 60ish points, but hellish defensively. I've got plenty of time for wingers like that. Incidentally that's the same type of player Raymond is supposed to be. I DON'T have time for guys like Mantha. 20ish goals, 50ish points, and does absolutely nothing else well. F*ck that guy.

I think Mantha's probably a decent enough player, but this is what happens when a team has no offensively talented centers. I've been saying this for years now, our centers are trash. I like Larkin as a workhorse top six, matchup, guy. And I like all of Glendening, Ras, Veleno, and Pearson as bottom six guys. But we have no centers that are going to elevate a winger's game offensively. It's not surprising that we struggle to score. Until Niederbach we didn't bother drafting offensive centers. Imagine Mantha riding shotgun with a guy who could consistently find him in the offensive zone like a Backstrom or Giroux. He'd definitely be a 30 goal guy. He's just not going to do it for us because A) he's not good enough to do it on his own, and B) Larkin isn't that kind of center.

I mean, me too. Hence why I'd trade for him. But there's a lot of pressure on Washington to win again while Ovi and Backstrom and Carlson are still pretty decent. So maybe they'd gamble on those extra 20 points if they thought it would be a factor in the playoffs.

I just need him to come back so that at least two of my three "bold predictions" will come true. I said he'd outscore Mantha this year. That prediction was looking pretty damn good until Bert got injured. Thank god Mantha blows and hasn't really scored at all in a month and a half. Still have a chance to scratch out a win on that one lol.

Agreed. Though I thought I saw that he was finally skating as of the end of last week?

He was holding his upper arm/shoulder when he went off the ice in the game that he got injured. Hasn't been back since.

To get rid of the headache? I suppose they’d be gambling on the fact that on THAT team, with THAT coach, Mantha would be a 70-75 point player.

Hear me out... To Washington: Mantha To Detroit: Tom Wilson, Washington 2021 1st

This guy f*cks. He's too busy wooing b*tches to put on eye liner. Plus he was drafted by the Philadephia Phillies and served in the Army, so he's a high level athlete AND an American hero. Alternatively, Dave Mustaine spent his 20's and 30's glowering/posturing a lot and now spends his time spreading the good word. What a badass. You lose.

Is it customary for those girls to curl their hair before head banging each other...or whatever? Because that's how it looks. It's cool man, go ahead and like your fairy music. It's a free country. If you wanna listen to born-agains sing about how sad they are/ folklore then you're perfectly within your rights as an American to do so. And if you wanna make believe that's "badass" then bless your heart.

How much time can a guy spend on his martial arts "lifestyle" when he's THAT busy feathering his hair? And how much time can you spend on google learning obscure facts about martial arts? Get a life man. I'm paying attention to your posts by the Skin o' My Teeth. And watch your mouth, else I'll get Angry Again and you'll feel my Architecture of Aggression. Ugh. Megadeth references are sooooo lame.

He's a born again Christian, which is the LEAST tough thing you could be. Also, karate and taekwondo are like the McDonald's of martial arts. I respect Jiu Jitsu more, but he's only a purple belt. I smash those dudes all the time when I train, and I'm just a normal guy. Again, musicians are just drama kids with angst.

Ugh, I hate to involve myself in this but I'm bored. So oh well. With very few exceptions musicians are not "tough". None of them. They're almost all giant p*ssies who pretend to be. "Metal" musicians are probably the biggest b*tches of them all TBH. They wear black clothes, makeup, and use a kick bass a lot, so I can see how some people could be fooled, but they're a bunch of flabby, drunk, overly dramatic, dumbf*cks who yell a lot. They're like every has-been at your local bar, except with makeup and drama. If I were a betting man I'd guess some old timer like Conway Twitty, Jerry Reid, or Glen Campbell would smash every member of Metallic, or Pantera, or Megadeth, or whomever. And basically any guy who's ever actually beat someone up would smash THEM. Thinking musicians are tough is a lot like thinking athletes are smart. Anyone who's ever met a member of either group knows this to be untrue and yet the myth persists.

For the first couple of seasons he was with the organization I thought Hirose looked really slow, in addition to being small. But in his few stints so far this season I thought he looked a little quicker and a little bigger. He's a poor man's Hudler, but at least he has offensive skill.

Suzuki is just Larkin-lite. Good player but we have that guy already. I would prefer someone who can actually score in a variety of ways. I REALLY want a center that's a high end playmaker. Larkin does fine 5 on 5 and in transition but he's not a natural scorer and it shoes on the powerplay. Same with Suzuki. Zbanejad would be that.

Not that I'm some expert on Mika Zbanejad's thinking, but I do recall reading an article with some GM (for some reason I'm thinking Rutherford) in which he said that NMC's aren't really that hard to work around because if you want to move a player they usually want to be moved as well and tend to be willing to go to teams that want them. I think it was in reference to Patric Hornqvist agreeing to be traded to Florida from Pittsburgh.

Stop me if you've heard this one. Trade Mantha and a 2nd for Mika Zbanejad. Supposedly NYR want Jack Eichel, bad. To get him they're going to have to trade one of Lafreniere or Kakko (plus other assets). Larry Brooks speculates that they'd want to move out Zbanejad before any Eichel deal. But the Sabres aren't likely to want a 27 yo Zbanejad if they're starting over. So... To NYR: Mantha, Detroit's 2nd (32-34rd overall) To Detroit: Zbanejad NYR gets additional trading stock for an Eichel trade, plus a winger who fits their timeline and can score. Detroit gets a 2nd line center who scores at Mantha's rate and is the same age.

That Athletic trade board has Carolina's Jake Bean listed as well. The logic being that they'd rather trade him than lose him for nothing at the expansion draft. I'd definitely be all over that if I'm Yzerman.