kipwinger

Yeah, I typically don't think those are that big of a deal. Players that realize they aren't wanted usually find teams they're willing to go play for. I think Tampa pretty easily moves two of them, but Brisbois is going to REALLY have to sweeten the deals. Edit: I'd take their two s***tiest contracts, Johnson and Gourde, but I'd want Barre Boulet and their 2022 1st.

I think they move two of Johnson, Killorn, Palat, or Gourde. I don't see them moving Point, though if they did I'd obviously be interested.

I'd like to see Yzerman target Alex Barre Boulet when he inevitably takes Johnson or Palat from Tampa to help them out with their cap issues. He's a top six center in the making, absolutely torching the AHL, and blocked in Tampa's lineup by Point and Cirelli. Really good offensive center prospect who could probably be had.

Agreed on Seider. I'd move Joey V to the Wing and let him be the digger for Zadina the way that Bertuzzi is the digger for Mantha. I think he'd compliment skill pretty well in that role, but I don't see a guy who can consistently make skilled offensive plays. He'll contribute plenty as "the other guy" but it's pretty clear to me that he's not an offensive driver after failing to score much in his draft year, failing to score much in his AHL season to the point where he got demoted down the lineup, and now failing to score much in the SHL to the point where he had to get moved to the wing. Or just trade him, as you've indicated, since we're probably good on the wing after drafting about 400 of them with high picks the last handful of years (Mantha, Bertuzzi, Svech, Zadina, Berggren, Mastrosimone, and Raymond).

Seider is a monster. I've already made the Seth Jones comparison, but another guy that comes to mind is Miro Heiskanen. Here's a dude who doesn't get the love that the elite scoring d-men get, but he's a minute muncher, has good enough offense to produce against top opposition, and is a possession beast. Any notion that Seider's offense is lacking should have been dispelled last season when produced in the AHL as an 18 year old, and is producing now in the SHL as a 19 year old. His offense has been better, in both the AHL and SHL, than Veleno's, so that's something right?

So reports from the twitterverse, including Bultman, indicate that Veleno has been playing on the wing the last few games in the SHL. Bummer.

I would have thought it was clear from the totality of my posts. I think Veleno will be a 3rd line, two-way center, who doesn't produce offense consistently because of his limited puck skills. Why do I think that? Because the NHL is a harder league to score in than the SHL or AHL and Veleno didn't produce very well in those leagues either. In fact, he's producing less well than other, less developed, Red Wings prospects including Berggren, Seider, and Raymond. Edit: You realize that Mantha's .67 ppg in the NHL is EXACTLY the same as his AHL production (.67) right? It's not like he got better. He's the same scorer. So (using the logic from your example) we should expect Veleno, who was an inconsistent third line center in the AHL to pull a Mantha and...be the exact same thing in the NHL? Cool, glad we agree.

Since they were drafted, Beggren has played 87 games at all levels. 58 in the SHL against men and 29 against juniors. He has also dealt with several severe injuries. Veleno has played 135 games, 65 in "men's leagues" (SHL and AHL) , and 70 against juniors. He has dealt with no serious injuries. If anything Veleno is MORE developed than Berggren. Yet he scores less. Berggren's ppg against men is .51. Veleno's is .45 in the SHL and .43 in the AHL.

Berggren, who is also 20 and playing in a men’s league, is torching the SHL. Keep in mind he was picked after Veleno and has missed the better part of two years with injuries. That’s the difference between a guy who has natural offensive ability and one who doesn’t. In every way Veleno is further along in his development and yet he can’t out pace Berggren because he simply doesn’t have the puck skills to produce anything other than middling offensive numbers. He’s currently getting outpaced by Seider (A 19 year old defenseman) as well. And it’s only going to get harder to score when he gets to the NHL. I think we are looking at 40 point, two-way, 3rd line center here.

Joe Veleno's offense just continues to disappoint. Not a surprise that guy feel to 30th overall. Looks like his two-way game is rounding out, which is a good development but man does he lack offensive creativity. You'd think he'd be an assist machine considering he's basically a guaranteed zone entry with his speed and athleticism, but so many plays just die on his stick. I'll be shocked if he ever scores 50 points in the NHL.

It's not really that hard to figure out. No realignment (even a temporary one) is going to pass without a majority of the owners supporting it. And owners of non-traditional markets would be stupid to agree to a division in which they all play against each other. They'd lose tons of revenue. If you're Tampa, would you rather have Detroit and Chicago come to town or Carolina and Dallas? Back when they proposed the realignment a few years ago everybody was all excited about the possibility of an Original Six Division. It was the dumbest thing ever. Why would any owner agree to a realignment plan in which all the most lucrative organizations, with the most established fan bases, all played each other and not you?

Timashov sucks anyway, who cares?

These are so f*cking dumb.

Seider is such a monster. People are selling his offense way short. I don’t think he’s going to be a 50-60 point guy. But he will score 40 and be a top defender a la Seth Jones. And I think Jones is the best defenseman in the league right now.

So this forum is unofficially dead huh? Bummer, it was a good run.

I'm very "meh" on Hanafin. He's a good enough player, but given that he's cost controlled for the next 4 years the ask will probably be pretty high. And I don't think he's good enough to justify that.

You're changing your story. An hour ago you were arguing that Fabbri, and not Larkin should be our 1C. Which means more minutes and more (lost) faceoffs against top players. And your magical cure for this is to have another terrible player do it for him, instead of just having Larkin do it?

Nope. I suggested that there's no top line (which is where you'd like to see Fabbri) winger who can take faceoffs for him. It never occured to me that any sane person would consider Filppula a top line player at this point in his career. But I'll bite. Filppula only won 44% of his faceoffs last season. So if you want to let him take the faceoffs then you'd be letting top line opposition players start with the puck about 55% of the time. Certainly that's better than Fabbri's 39% faceoff win percentage, but it's still a f*cking nightmare. So good thinking. Namestnikov, before you try, is a career 44% faceoff guy. So he can't do it (effectively) either.

I saw her lines. I'm suggesting that's a terrible idea for a multitude of reasons. If you think having Fabbri AND Filppula on your top line is a good idea then I don't really know what else to say. You win.

Which top line winger on our team do you think would take the faceoffs then?

I just don't think she knows anything at all about how hockey is actually played on the ice. People who have never played only understand the game from a fan's perspective, and that can be misleading. If you're a below 50% faceoff guy you'll never, ever, ever, ever be a top center in the league. No coach on earth is going to play a guy 20+ minutes a night knowing full well that the other team's best guys are going to start with the puck more than half the time. Same with defense. It's all well and good that Fabbri is a decent playmaker, but if you're giving up more chances (to another team's top guys) than you're generating then you're never going to get top line minutes, regardless of your production. With our current lineup I'd probably do something like this: Ryan-Larkin-Mantha (decent enough two-way, big minutes, top line) Bert-Namestnikov-Filppula (responsible line defensively, with a little offense for matchups) Gagner-Fabbri-Zadina (offensive line to feast on mismatches/bottom pair defenders) Helm-Glendening-Erne/Nielsen (defensive and special teams line) Or Maybe.... Ryan-Larkin-Mantha Bert-Namestnikov-Fabbri Gagner-Filppula-Zadina

HSJ is a dingbat. My biggest concerns would be whether Fabbri can consistently win faceoffs against top centers (he probably can't) and whether he can defend against top centers (he probably can't). We don't have other options, so I don't mind them trying him at center, but assuming that guy can out compete legit top centers is absurd.

Nice try. I said the Fabbri deal could affect one or both of Mantha or Bertuzzi's negotiations by encouraging them to ask for more than they're worth. Mantha didn't. Bert did. He was the first Red Wing to go all the way through the arbitration process in many years, and the award he received was closer to the team's ask than his.

I like it. Does a very good job of bridging the gap between Mantha's potential and very mediocre production to this point.

If Hoffman was a center he’d have a contract by now.