kipwinger

Neither. For the the first season he'd probably be on a line with some veteran like Filppula or something. Veleno ain't making the Wings out of camp, and Lafreniere would get eaten alive against top line competition as a rookie (regardless of how good he is). Probably ends up on a 2nd line with Filppula and Fabbri or something awful like that.

Then keep my name out yo mouth, b*tch.

I'm not undervaluing Lafreniere at all. I think he'll be a very high scoring winger. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to be a 80-90 point winger even, if he hits his ceiling. But as I've said many times, I'd rather have an 80 point center than a 90 point winger. Their impact on the game is greater. My stance on this draft has NEVER been anti-Lafreniere. I don't care about him. It's entirely based on our need for a top center combined with the availability of three guys after Lafreniere who all have 1C projections. Of those three I think Rossi is the best, and that's who I'd take, but Byfield and Stutzle are not far behind. I think we have championship caliber wingers already. If Mantha's dumb ass would stop fighting he'd be a 30 goal, 75 point winger. Zadina probably pots 25 goals and 60ish points. Bert will chip in 18 goals, 45 points. One of Veleno or Ras will be an impact winger. Probably Berggren and Mastrosimone too. Fabbri has been a very pleasant surprise, I'd expect 18 goals, 55ish points from him too going forward. But I don't think there's a chance in hell we win anything with Dylan Larkin as our 1C. He's not offensively gifted enough to come up with big goals when you need it, and we REALLY struggle by not have better offensive centers on the powerplay. So we need an offensive 1C, which lets Dylan be a stud 2C matchup guy, and then one of Veleno or Ras at 3C. That's REAL center depth of the sort that could cause serious problems for potential playoff opponents. To be clear, I hate you because you're a dim-witted, passive aggressive, whiner. As evidenced by this post. But do you really want to start this up again?

Lol. Man you should really take it easy. This ^^^^^^^^ is unhealthy. Just let it go.

I "have a problem with you" because you're a simple minded pud. I come here to talk to people about hockey, and everything you say on the subject is boring or contrived. Which is fine, but if I were as intellectually lazy as you are I wouldn't write 5 paragraph long pity posts when other people made fun of me about it. I'd probably just say, "Yeah, Hughes probably wasn't as good as I thought he was", and move on. You, on the other hand, do this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Quit being a b*tch and just take your ribbing. And when I'm inevitably wrong about something you can give it back. That's kinda the nature of sports fandom.

Thanks for your permission douchebag. The fact that you pretend you're not heavily influenced by "HYPE!" is laughable. You've been around a while, so I have I. Every year you're balls deep on whomever the concensus top guy is. Then, as it inevitably becomes clear they're not as good as you think, you start equivocating. You're the Darren Dreger of LGW. "Durrr...I want Lafreniere" in one thread and then "Durrr...I'd really be happy with any of the top guys" in another. Both can be true, but it's basically as brainless a position as you can have. "Durrr...I don't care who we get, I just like drafting guys...durrr...HYPE!" Finally, you're really reaching if you think I wanted Kakko over Hughes. I said multiple times that given (in my opinion) Hughes was not noticeably better than Dach, Zegras, or Cozens, if I had the first overall pick I'd trade back and take one of them plus the assets.

Not even close. I'd take two, maybe even three players before Lafreniere. So we're very much not thinking the same way here. I don't have some wild crush on Rossi, after careful consideration I think he's the biggest difference maker in the top part of the draft. But I'd also take Byfield and maybe Stutzle over Lafrieniere. Simply put, centers have more impact on the game than wingers. Especially centers who can do other things well in addition to scoring. Lafreniere may get you a big goal one day, which is true for all the other top guys as well, but he'll never kill a big penalty, win a defensive zone draw late in a game to protect a lead, or bear down the backcheck and break up an odd man rush. That's just not his game. And when you get to the elite level those are the things that separate the winners. THAT'S why I'd rather have Rossi or Byfield or Stutzle. Same reason as I'd rather have Draisaitl or Barkov over McDavid or Eichel. Same reason I'd rather have Seth Jones than Erik Karlsson. Scoring is great, but everyone at the top of the draft can score. What else can you do and how well can you do it?

I've made all the points over and over. I think he'll go #1 as well, in fact I hope he does because I don't think we'll be picking there. My point has only ever been that he won't be the best player to come out of this draft. There's so many reasons to think otherwise.

It's odd because Red Wings fans should be intimately familiar with the whole point I'm making. Why were Datsyuk and Zetterberg better than Crosby and Malkin in 2008 despite not outscoring either of them? Because Zetterberg and Datsyuk could do stuff like this, and Crosby and Malkin couldn't: Or, why was Steve Yzerman a better player in the mid-1990s than in the 1980s despite scoring less?

I've also routinely explained WHY I think Rossi will be better than Lafreniere, and as of yet nobody has been able/willing to refute anything I say. Which is why I tend to put very little stock in "Lafreniere is the next Matthews" talk. BTW, I did the same thing with Jack Hughes last year and literally EVERYTHING I said would hold him back in the NHL is coming true. It wasn't that hard to see, you just had to be willing to consider that maybe he wasn't really "playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers". If you start with the premise "Player X is a cut above" then it's impossible to arrive at any other conclusion.

I've said as much many times. No argument there. That sure COULD be true. But lots of other outcomes exist too... But when I say Rossi will be better than Lafreniere you'd think I f*cked someone's mom.

Isn't a big part of sport fandom the ability to talk MAD s*** about very trivial things? The knife cuts both ways. If he's sensational next year I'd imagine I'd catch a lot of sh*t for it wouldn't I? All part of the game man. Unless you're a whiny little p*ssy who can't stand when people call you out on things.

Jack Hughes gets flack because people in the media hyped him to the moon, just like some are doing with Lafreniere, now and fans like @Dabura jumped all over it acting as if this guy was some superstar. So when he plays pretty pedestrian everyone should rightly get called out for it. Nobody thinks Jack Hughes is bad, but a whole lot of people thought he was sooooooooo good. Hint: He isn't. I'll be the first one calling out @krsmith17 when Lafreniere stumbles as well. He's thrown that "generational" word around enough that if the kid isn't (hint: he's not) then he'd better expect some blowback. Compared him to Auston Matthews on a few different occasions. Matthews dropped 40 goals on the league as a rookie. If Lafreniere isn't in that ballpark then someone has quite a lot of crow to eat.

Gotta remember that Byfield is nearly a full year younger than some of the other top guys. Add 10sih months of experience and maturing to that kid and he's likely up there with Lafreniere and Rossi (two of the older guys) in scoring. He's a machine and I think pretty safely projects as a top center given his size, skill, and speed. You're looking at another Anze Kopitar here.

Calling you out when you make outrageous claims like "defensive specialists are becoming less and less common" isn't cherry picking. If you don't want someone to call you out on your b.s. then think harder and longer about what you're saying. It's not our job to suss out what you mean when you aren't specific with your "word choice". Also, I'll discuss whatever I want you little butt sniffer.

You're changing your story now because you were so obviously wrong the first time. You said "defensive specialists" were becoming less and less common. That's false. Every single team in the league, including the two you mentioned, have multiple "defensive specialists". Just admit you were wrong man.

Even when there was no salary cap teams didn't have 4 "offensive" lines. Look at the 2002 Wings. All the money in the world, a willingness to spend it, free agents dying to play here, and we still had the Grind line and Devereaux.

Also, defensive specialists ARE NOT "becoming less and less common". That's just b.s. made up to win this argument. Every team has a 4th line full of "defensive specialist". Just like they always have. Point to any roster in the league and I'll happily point out the defensive specialists.

I've decided that Detroit's optimal draft position, for my entertainment, is 2nd. I don't want Lafreniere, so drafting 2nd mean's he's likely off the board. But it's also an optimal position to trade back from. And even if the Wings don't trade back, it'll still be interesting to see who they take a 2nd.

If this truly is the end for Buff, and it seems like it is, then I'll be bummed. That guy was an absolute animal. His blend of size, speed, and skill from the defense position was truly one of a kind in NHL history. One of the rare types of players who can take a game over all by themselves. I mean, who else does THIS to Chris Pronger?

"They" are probably made up.

It's worth nothing, and I take it as such.

I genuinely want all of those top three more than I want Lafreniere.

I ******* knew it was you! As I've said many times, I don't think you need elite goaltending to win Cups, and many team with elite goaltending don't. I'd MUCH rather have serviceable goaltending and an elite defense corps. I would continue to use these high draft picks on position players and then, when we're ready to compete, nab somebody's backup who's ready to breakout. There's always a Georgiev out there who can be had for trade when we're ready to compete. This year I'm filling my #1 center need. Next year I'm getting an offensive minded LD powerplay QB. The year after that I'm taking a powerforward with decent hands. Only then am I thinking about goalie.