kipwinger

Love the troll Askarov vote. I've been going back and forth so much on this. Byfield is a stud and has been compared to Malkin, but he's likely going to be in the OHL at least another year. Stutzle has been compared to Kane or Marner, neither of whom are centers, but he seems to project as one and could be playing for the Griffs as early as next season. Finally, I like Rossi's game the most, and he's indicated that he won't play in the OHL next season but he's no eligible to play in the AHL so it's NHL or Europe for him. Risky proposition for a guy that still has some physical developing to do before he's an effective pro. End of the day I picked Rossi. He just impacts the game in so many more ways than everyone else. He's good at everything and is about the same size as Crosby was when drafted (so I'm not scared of his height). But I'm hoping there's a growth spurt ahead regardless.

No, I was saying that if he "refused to play in Detroit" a la Lindros that it would be clear he had Lindros' attitude but without the same level of talent. Hence, one wouldn't get a Lindros like return in a trade. As such, it would be better to pass on it entirely and just select the next player on your draft list.

Except that Eric Lindros was considered (with some justification) the next generational superstar, while Lafreniere isn't even close to that. Who's going to give up a haul for Jonathan Huberdeau with a bad attitude?

He's an assistant for the Stars now. He'll be a head coach before too long I'd think.

Ben Simon is the coach of the Griffins, not Todd Nelson.

So literally the only time this has ever happened it "turned out ok" and we're A) worried about it, and B) think the NHL should do something about it? Let me help you out, here's what you do: you don't select that player anyway, like the Nordiques did, and pick the next best guy. Problem solved.

Dude, there's more to being a hockey player than how good you are at hockey. I mean, how good of a guy is Zadina? Did you even think of that? What if he's got a really super great attitude?

Agreed. I think Regula, at his best, will be one of those guys you pair a Yandle, or Green, or Shattenkirk with. A guy who can keep up, get the puck out of the zone, play defense, and chip in a little bit of offense but mostly support the other guy who gets all the sweet powerplay time. You need both. I think he'll be a workhorse.

To piggy back off of a discussion I'm having in another thread, the ascent of Ericsson to the main roster happened right around the same time that our defense was gutted by the loses of Rafalski, Lidstrom, and Stuart. Those guys were never replaced with quality players, and so guys like Ericsson were tasked with playing WAY above their heads. If Ericsson had only ever been a 3rd pair stay at home guy and penalty killer NOBODY would have even a single criticism of him. If, however, you ask him to shut down Patrick Kane in 2013 playoffs he's going to get smashed. That's not his fault, that's Holland's and to a lesser extent Babcock's.

I followed him pretty closely since he was drafted. I don't think he's a late bloomer, he's just always been buried in the depth chart. He was always behind Bouchard and then Bouchard and Boqvist for those juicy powerplay minutes that all the young defensemen pad their stats with. Some time ago I actually broke down Regula's 5 on 5 scoring vs. a bunch of those top defensive prospects and he was better than a lot of names you might consider better. I always hoped he'd be a Matthias Ekholm type guy. A dude that scores in the 20-30 point range without any powerplay time, who's good defensively, and can eat minutes. I like those kinds of guys. Perlini, on the other hand, is f*cking trash. He's Jurco 2.0. A guy who can only produce if he's gifted primo minutes he hasn't earned and some better player drags him around the ice.

I don't really care what he moved out, it's that other than the Fabbri trade we never got decent value back. Erne for a 4th? Sure a 4th isn't much, but you could sign dozens of guys like Erne for league minimum and not give up the 4th. Sarijaariv for Comrie? Sure Sarijaarvi isn't that great but Comrie lasted 4 games with the team. Kaski for Wood? Terrible trade. Threw a decent prospect (who lit it up afterward) away for a career AHLer. Perlini for Regula. Terrible trade. Perlini blows is likely gone. Plus even if Regula only ever turns into another Kyle Quincey it would be lopsided. AA for two 2nds. Meh. It's fine I guess, but when I see that Barclay Goodrow got a 1st in return, and we need additional 1sts, I have to wonder why Yzerman didn't package AA with a 2nd or a prospect. Only Fabbri, and I guess Biega would be considered useful returns. Not really. He's ok, but not exactly a fill in for the guys I mentioned. Doesn't move the needle in any meaningful way. Plus we didn't draft or develop him. At his very best he MIGHT have been a replacement for Brad Stuart, but thats about it.

I genuinely don't think it would have made a difference. Detroit started falling off from the back end first. We lost Rafalski then Stuart and Lidstrom and never replaced them. We didn't draft and develop a single decent defenseman between Kronwall and Hronek and we only acquired guys like Ian Cole, Carlo Colaiacovo, Mike Commodore, etc. to fill those holes. Hossa was not going to make up for a 4th rate defense after about 2010.

Yeah but you could easily write off the blunder as hindsight. All the same sources that are currently saying Lafreniere is "in a tier to himself" were saying the exact same things about Patrick and Hischier. It was a two horse race and nobody else was close. So you can fall back on "all available indications were that Patrick would be a stud", and "nobody could have imagined it would turn out like this". Of course, that's bulls*** but it would convince the dummies.

I'm not down on him. He's been perfectly "meh" so far regarding trades. Say most of them were pretty bad is just a reasonable assessment of what he's done w/respect to the trade market. I actually like his drafting, though I didn't on draft day. I was very wrong about Seider, Steve exceeded my expectations there.

Disagree. Peter Chiarelli has amply demonstrated that no amount of bad trades can end your career. This is a guy who traded all of Phil Kessel, Blake Wheeler, Tyler Seguin, and Taylor Hall for a handful of magic beans. Shero and Rutherford are guilty of this too, to a lesser extent. Dumb fans (i.e. most fans) want durrrr HYPE! more than they want their team to be good. They want trades more than they want good trades even. The "goodness" of the trade being an ancillary benefit. The trade you're suggesting here would be a homerun for both teams' executives, just on different timeslines. Vancouver would love it on draft day, and Philly would love it for the rest of their careers. Fans, either way, would be on to the next thing. Look how excited Detroit fans were for the "big moves" Yzerman made this year, most of which were pretty bad. Why were they excited? Because Holland basically never did dumb sh*t like that.

You keep me up. I can't sleep. I see a shrink. Also, you don't know s*** about hockey.

Make jokes all you want. You did everything but scoff the last two years when I suggested trading the 1st overall. Now you've "always been open to it". The only person more critical than you was KRsmith, and I'm sure he's still holding out hope that Lafreniere is "borderline generational". Lol. Anyway, the point is that you're a flip flopper and your takes are as boring and uncreative as you (presumably) are.

I don't feel persecuted. I feel like I've been right, and now all you dummies are catching up to the fact that Lafreniere isn't as good as you thought, and other players are better than you thought. Glad you're finally joining the club of big brained thinkers. It'll take you another 18 months to finally catch up to the stuff I'm saying now.

That's odd, all year long you've mocked me for suggesting that one should trade down from first overall. What changed?

Only way I want Lafreniere in that scenario is if I'm Los Angeles and I'm STACKED at center already. Otherwise this is a no brainer.

I work remotely, even before all this stuff. Go to DC about once a month for a couple days. I didn't like living in the city, it sucked. Bought a farm in Appalachia and have a zillion animals now. Way more fun.

I live not far from there now. I love Appalachia. Your sister is probably just weak.

Who are you telling?

I mean, it would be in keeping with Yzerman's tendency to f*** up asset management for sure. If you like Stutzle more than Lafreniere and you have the 1st pick you'd better trade back to #3 and land some additional assets.

The plot thickens.