kipwinger

Not necessarily. There's probably some value in people thinking that Mantha is always a year or so away from "breaking out". What if he has two 25 goal/55 point seasons over the next two years? If you know that Montreal thinks they're about to get a total monster, then you can price him accordingly rather than wait until he regresses to the mean. No right answer here BTW, just a tight rope Yzerman has to walk in his decision making. Little rich for Mantha. There aren't many players in the entire league who would fetch you consecutive 1st round picks.

Their prospect pool is stacked and they've got most of their picks as well. This is a year where they can afford to lose a 1st as long as it's for a good piece. And Mantha fits into their forward group. I think a package like I mentioned above (doesn't have to be those exact players, but close in value) is something they'd have to consider. Going forward with Mantha, Gallagher, Domi, Drouin, Suzuki, Kotkaniemi, and Caulfield makes them very dangerous. Also makes guys like Tatar and Byron expendable for help in other areas (defense).

Personally I'd move him this offseason, but your point is taken and very valid. I like him to Montreal this offseason because they'll likely get a high (but not too high) 1st rounder, and have a great prospect pool. Couple that with the fact the they've indicated they don't want to rebuild. They've already got a 1C and 2C in their system and just need top wingers so he's a good fit. And finally, we've got three 2nd rounders so we can sweeten the pot a bit to take the sting out of losing that 1st.

1. See above: MacKinnon had nothing to do with the Duchene trade. 2. Assuming they pick somewhere between 6-10, I'd offer Mantha and a 2nd (not the 32nd overall though) to Montreal for their 1st round pick, Romanov, and Cayden Primeau prior to the draft. Thus we'd have a top four, a top 12, an elite goalie prospect, a top left D prospect, and two second rounders coming into our system this offseason. 3. I agree with the bold. 4. It's only an "assessment year" because Yzerman said that's what he's doing and nobody wants to question him. Plenty of other GMs actually do something of substance the first year they're on the job. The whole "shake things up" approach ya know.

1: He wasn't a budding superstar at that point and people were actually criticizing him for not being able to take his game to the next level. Literally nobody anticipated he'd drop 97 points the next season. 2: But even if that's the case, trading a Mantha is pretty easy when you've got Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen, and a top 4 pick coming up in this year's draft. Not like we're absent options as well. 3: My point is, trading good players gets good returns. Trading mediocre players gets mediocre returns. We have good players to trade.

What's that have to do with anything? Duchene requested a trade out of Colorado. He was getting traded with or without MacKinnon and he STILL got that kind of return.

We do.

Fun Fact: After the Colorado Avalanche posted a era worst 22 win season in 2017 they got creative and traded one of their best young players (Duchene) in a three way deal with Ottawa and Nashville, which yielded them (among other things): 1st (Bowen Byram) 2nd (Traded for starting goalie Philipp Grubaur) Samual Girard (.5 ppg defenseman) Shane Bowers (top prospect for the organization) Vladislav Kamanev (top prospect for the organization)

I don't think it's that unreasonable to expect the GM to take meaningful steps toward improving his team (when it's this bad) each season. Landing a quality prospect with your first pick is almost the least you can do. Trading De La Rose for Fabbri was almost the least you could do (there isn't a fan on earth that would not have made that trade too). Acquiring more 2nd and 3rd rounders was something Holland was ALREADY doing. But more Robert Mastrosimones and Antti Tuomistos and Albert Johansons aren't going to change this franchise's fortunes. Going forward Steve needs to do a few things. First, recognize that if this rebuild is going to take as long as you're saying then you need to get high returns for Bert and Mantha now and get those prospects/picks developing. How good is Mantha going to be in another 8 years? Bert? They aren't stars now, let alone in their 30s. Move them for 1sts and high quality prospects now. Second, he MUST become better at asset management in general. You can't throw away Regula or Kaski for nothing. If they don't fit into your plans, you package them with a veteran at the deadline and get a decent pick. Regula and Helm/Glendening is likely a very attractive package for a playoff team. Likewise you HAVE to trade Fabbri. He's a free asset that is probably only a 3rd line player on a competitive team. He's replaceable. If Barclay Goodrow and a 3rd gets you a 1st, then Fabbri and a pick gets you what? 3rd, Yzerman HAS to start trading things of value. If you're not willing to trade valuable players, and nobody wants bad players, what does that leave you? UFAs and guys like AA. And you're not likely to change your fortunes on what you'll get from those returns. In the run up to this deadline ten 1st round picks were traded, along with a number of high end prospects (including Nolan Foote, Calen Addison, and Tyler Madden). That's more than any year in recent memory. We received none of those assets. That can't happen. 4th, weaponize your cap space. I'm going to wait and see on this one because this generally tends to happen in the off season. But Yzerman had a boat load of cap space last offseason and did nothing with it. We've seen time and again the value this has for competitive teams who need the space in for free agency. We cannot go another year without taking advantage of this as our cap payroll is going to start increasing before too long with Bert, Mantha, Hronek, Fabbri all needing new (more valuable) deals soon and a bunch of high quality youngsters poised to start integrating into the team before long.

I hear this every year, and I don't agree. Every GM has tolerances. More or less risk that they're willing to assume. A conservative GM makes fewer moves with the same roster as a risk taker, in theory. Some GMs would never, ever, ever, trade a 70 point player (Holland). Some would trade them for Tyler Seguin (Nill). Some would trade them for Adam Larsson (Chiarelli). Seems like Yzerman, so far, has very low risk tolerances. He even said today in his presser that every player has some kind of value at the deadline, and yet he only made two deals. The fact that he didn't trade a Glendening, Helm, Bernier, or Fabbri DOES NOT mean that there was no market for them. It could mean a few other things too. Maybe the market was weak and they have more value to your team. Maybe you're scared to trade a better than average player. Maybe you weren't willing to pair them with a prospect or pick to get a more valuable asset. I don't know the story with Yzerman, but I do know that pairing Barclay Goodrow with a 3rd round pick was worth a 1st rounder today. What's Fabbri and a 2nd get you? Glendening and a decent prospect?

How does hanging on to our most valuable trade chips help us become competitive as soon as possible? Especially when those guys have shown that collectively they can't win? You suggested earlier that WITH those guys we're looking at 3-5 years before we're competitive anyway. You have to try and find ways to accelerate your rebuild IF you're going to hang on to those guys. Conversely, if you're ok with the rebuild taking 10 more years to pay off then you might as well trade them now and get a jump start.

Sure, at this rate. But if so, then why not trade Mantha and Bert for 1st round picks? Since neither of them work with that timeline? or Larkin for that matter?

That's understandable, but you need to acquire high value draft picks. I'm all for drafting and hoping with your late 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks. But the reality is that Yzerman might very well go the rest of his career without finding another Brayden Point in the 3rd round, for instance. So I don't think that can be the central thrust of your rebuilding philosophy. You also need to make those picks count. If you're looking for gems in the 2nd round you need to take guys with boom upside. Antti Tuomisto types just aren't going to cut it.

Honestly I think the right course of action may be to sell off all the 25 year old guys (Mantha, Bert, AA) and go forward with a new core of (Larkin, Zadina, Veleno, Ras, Hronek, Seider) and a bunch of 1st and 2nd rounders. I just don't see us getting out of this drafting only once in the 1st round each year. We need multiple 1sts like Ottawa has acquired. Also have to get SOMETHING for Helm, Glendening, and DK at some point. If you're not willing to trade good younger players, and you're not willing to trade good older players, and you can't trade bad players, then I'm not sure what your hoping to get for whoever is left.

Bernier is playing outrageously good and we still lose every game he starts.

Hard not to be disappointed here. Not sure what the plan is. I don't know why you'd sell this low on AA. The trade was fair value for the season he's having, but you'd have to expect a rebound going forward. I don't know why you wouldn't put any/all of Helm, Glen, Bernier, Fabbri out there if "we need as many picks as possible" really is your strategy. Adding two seconds and a fourth over two drafts isn't really going to cut it.

I was literally about to say the opposite. We have a log jam at forward now. Unless Yzerman is planning on waiving a bunch of dudes really soon.

Underwhelming for sure, but probably good value considering the year he's had. Also, there may be conditions.

AA for two 2nd rounders according to Dreger.

Dallas has been really quiet today. Most of the West has been actually. Expecting a flurry over the next two hours.

Plus the absolutely haul he gave for Pageau. Neither of whom are needle movers given what he's already got on the Island. Just saddling this team to mediocrity down the road for no realistic shot at a Cup.

Lou Lamorello has lost his f*cking marbles.

No s***. But trades don't materialize instantaneously. Presumably CBJ had an offer on the table that was close, and Yzerman is waiting to see if someone beats it. Smart considering AA's value has only increased as the day has gone on.

It probably WAS close, then Kreider re-signed making AA the top remaining forward on the market. Yzerman would be dumb not to wait it out after that. See if any of the Western Conference teams want to pony up more than CBJ.