kipwinger

Guilty as charged. I am condescending when dealing with things like you. But you didn't respond to my original post because you wanted to point that out. You responded to my post because you thought you had some really valid insight about GMs and bad contracts. And you failed. Which I suspect is a common occurrence for you. In the future, if you wanna make the point that I'm a d*ck, just say that. Leave the hockey part out of your equation. It's easier for you that way.

As is your norm, you responded to me, and then acted butt hurt when you got exposed. Not my fault. Why don't you just block me? I get nothing out of making you and KRsmith look stupid as often as I do. And if you're going to keep coming for me, better get your facts straight bud.

Wrong again guy. Here, let me help you. https://www.nhl.com/player/kevin-hayes-8475763#stats See, you have to add his points from NYR (42) to his points from Winnipeg (13) together. How much is that? C'mon, you can do it. So, do you just wanna take a loss on this one or are you going to triple down on being a goof?

And if you fact checked that dummy you'd realize he's wrong. Kevin Hayes scored 55 points in 18-19. So is the egg on both your faces for being reactionary dipsh*ts, or just his? Edit: Also, providing one (factually inaccurate) example isn't even close to your insinuation that there are "no shortage" of GMs giving out these types of contracts to these types of players, which implies it happens with regularity.

For a 50 point defenseman maybe. Which forwards are making 6 million long term and have never scored 50 points? I'll wait.

Remember when I started telling all you losers about how awesome Marco Rossi was, and you couldn't stop butt-sniffing Lafreniere? Chew on this nugget from the Athletic's Scott Wheeler, douchebags. "Rossi has reached video game levels in the OHL. He’s probably junior hockey’s most dominant three-zone player, frankly. And while he’s older than most in this class, the number of remaining doubts I have in the translation of his game sits at zero. Don’t listen to anyone who says he will have to switch to winger at the pro level, either. Rossi is a dominant defensive center who is so strong on his feet and low to the ice that I have literally seen him throw people over his shoulders. There have been times this season when Rossi was so good on faceoffs that teams have moved players to the wing because they can’t beat him. He’s got it all. He’s slick with the puck, he absorbs contact effortlessly and stick checks effortlessly. He can open up and go heel-to-heel to survey the offensive zone and he sees things that other players don’t. Though you have to consider the strength of team and age, I have little doubt as to whether Rossi would be terrorizing teams no matter where he played. I recently asked Ottawa 67’s general manager James Boyd for his honest opinion on Rossi. He didn’t hold back. “He’s a phenomenal player. Phenomenal. A few teams that have picked up on it. I’m biased but I think he’s the best player in our league. It’s not often you’ve got a player on your team who is the best offensive player, the best defensive player, the best guy on faceoffs, the best guy on the power play, the best guy on the penalty kill and probably your No. 1 shootout shooter,” Boyd said. “And the thing is he doesn’t cheat, so as the game goes along, he takes over. The No. 1 thing for me is his skating — which was a concern for some people — is phenomenal. He’s just continued to improve. He is obsessed with getting better. Some guys are interested in getting better, he’s obsessed. If I told him to eat a pound of sunflower seeds every day because it would help him get to the NHL, he’d be right on it. It’s only going to continue. You hear this sort of stuff about Sidney Crosby or Shea Weber when they were juniors, it’s almost like a disorder, the striving to get better. I see the same thing in Marco, nothing’s going to stop him.”

Some of my favorite things to do on LGW are compare what people A) think someone is worth in a trade vs. what they actually get in return, or B) compare what people think a UFA will sign for vs. what they actually do. It's hilarious how bad most fans are at player valuation. Anybody who thinks a guy who's never scored 50 pts in the NHL is going to get a 6 million dollar contract for (near) max term is delusional.

Marco Scandella AND Brendan Dillon both traded, both get 2nd and 3rd round picks in return. So we about ready to up our expectations for Andreas Athanasiou yet or no? Correction: Scandella return was a 2nd and 4th.

Comparable to Madison Bowey.

Puljujarvi is not a top prospect. He's a bust. He couldn't produce with Connor McDavid as his center. So no, I wouldn't. As far as Keane, he's a "middling" prospect because he has no track record of production and only projects as a 3rd pairing defenseman. His numbers this year, while reasonably impressive, are the exception and not the norm. Haven't seen a single source who suggests he's be anything other than a defensive defenseman.

If not you hang on to him, let him play out the season, and trade him at the draft or at next year's deadline when he's bounced back. He's an extremely valuable asset because he's a proven scorer, young, RFA, and isn't in line for a huge payday. People looking to offload him for Jesse Puljujarvi or whatever have no idea what they're throwing away here. Same thing a couple years ago with Tatar. Look back through LGW and see how many dummies were trying to give that guy away for basically nothing. Or better yet, if Brendan Smith was worth a 2nd and 3rd then AA is worth a f*ck of a lot more than a 2nd.

I think that given the prices that guys like Toffoli, Zucker, etc. are getting you'd be dumb to trade him for a 2nd. Especially since it's looking like there's an arms race shaping up in the east and 1sts are already on the table. If he gets traded for a 2nd there will be other valuable pieces thrown in. He'll either fetch a 1st, or 2nd plus (another 2nd or good prospect).

Would you trade AA for a 2nd straight up? Yes or no?

Lol, so the Rangers acquired Gauthier for a middling prospect? I swear I read recently on LGW that someone would give AA AND Svechnikov for Gauthier and a 2nd.

Meh, pass. He's hurt constantly and can't score. Never reached all that potential that everyone gushed about.

I almost posted the same thing but I figured @Dabura would give me a stern talking to for bringing up what people were wrong about in the past.

Am I eating crazy pills? I responded to someone who definitely did ask if Veleno was NHL ready. Then you responded to my criticisms of his game, saying that he was better than he was earlier in the season. That's how we got here. I never addressed you once until you responded to my discussion with someone else and immediately changed the narrative to something different. Whether or not Veleno has improved over the course of the season is irrelevant to the discussion I was having. He's not good enough, offensively or defensively, to be in the NHL as of today. That's what was being discussed before you parachuted into the middle of things. It's not like I sought you out to talk about Veleno's improvement and then changed the topic to whether he's NHL ready. In fact it's the exact opposite. You jumped into a discussion about whether he's NHL ready and then changed the topic to his improvement.

It doesn't matter who said it first. You're suggesting that the way to get him to stop "rushing passes" (as CRL desribed it first) is for him to...wait for it...rush passes. You're grasping at straws.

He was moved out of a defensive role when he was swapped with Turgeon. And they did that because he was totally overmatched. If he looks better now, it's only because he's being asked to do less defending. Just like Detroit, GR uses their checking line player in defensive roles and their top six players in offensive ones. GR posts their lines before every game. Go look. Over the course of the season Veleno was moved off the defensive line and put on an offensive one with two offensive players in Terry and Svech. Edit: For the record, I've never mentioned plus/minus at all. You can't seem to shut up about it however.

This is the same sh*t that KRsmith says. It's starting to get old. I watch as many games as I can watch, and I check the box scores on the games I miss. Sue me. My assessment from that observation is that Veleno isn't scoring enough at the AHL level to justify a promotion to a top 9 role in the NHL. And I'm not seeing some top defender either. He's been moved to a scoring line, with two scoring wingers (Terry and Svech). He's not being utilized as a matchup guy (a la Glendening). H's not taking defensive zone draws. Turgeon and Pearson are doing those things. Veleno WAS on a checking line, and they moved him away from that defensive responsibility when they swapped him with Turgeon (who was the 2C). He is on the PK, which is a credit to him, but so was AA when he played in GR so I'd take it with a grain of salt. AND he still gets scored on a lot against AHL caliber scoring lines. So I'm not sure what you two are watching. If he's produced a bunch more points, or started shutting down opposition scoring lines, and I just missed it somehow then I'm happy for you (or KRsmith) to prove me wrong with something other than "we watch more games than you". But it sure doesn't seem like he's ready for a promotion to the NHL based on his play up to this point.

Why is it no longer applicable? He still isn't producing much offensively, and he still gets scored on more than anyone else in GR. I agree he's probably better than he was at the beginning of the season, but he's still not good enough to be a 2C in the NHL because he doesn't produce enough offense and he gets scored on a lot. I stand by it. It's still a valid assessment of his game, even if it's marginally less true than it was a few months ago.

That was never the question. The original question asked was "Do you think he's ready for the NHL". And I said no, he's not. Meaning the 2C spot on the Red Wings. That's what I was responding too. Nobody said he wasn't going to make the NHL someday. I said he's not good enough to do so without being a liability right now because he's got a lot of growing to do.

The bold also makes no sense, and is therefore a perfect example of KRsmith logic. Cholo needs to "get rid of the puck quicker" so he doesn't "rush". Lol.

Sounds like you're agreeing with everything I said, because my only point was that he's not ready to play in the NHL because he has deficiencies in his game. So we're on the same page.

The short answer? No. Veleno is abysmal defensively at the AHL level and needs to round out that part of his game. He's getting TORCHED at 5on5. Plus his offense is only middling. About half of his 7 goals are either junk goals or else situations where someone else did the heavy lifting and Veleno simply finished off the play. Offensively he's no better than fellow AHL rookie Chase Pearson, who's scoring about as much in significantly fewer minutes.