kipwinger

I see your line of thinking, which seems to be that both of those guys are better offensive players at this point than Rasmussen. But I'm not sure that's the only factor. Puck retrieval is a big factor in maintaining offensive zone time, and I don't really like Filppula/Nielsen with AA and Zadina or to a lesser extent Veleno. Not sure who's going to win those board battles a la Bertuzzi and Mantha on that top line. Bertuzzi is actually a great example, he's a good offensive player no doubt but not better than AA. Yet the top line works better with Bert on it because he helps maintain offensive possession. Ideally I'd want Mantha, AA, and Zadina on different lines with Bert, Ras, and maybe Svech (or some other puck retrieval complimentary winger) opposite them. Ras may not be the best option right now, but I'm afraid any combination of AA, Zadina, Veleno gets physically dominated in the O-zone.

Show me all the guys who were drafted at wing and then switched to center in the NHL. I'll wait. So, I take it from this post and your lack of DMing me that you're basically unwilling to actually put anything behind your argument here? Anyway, good talk. Keep hedging your bets on this "I won't be surprised if Lafreniere plays center in the NHL one day". I'm sure that wishful thinking will totally pan out for you.

EVERYONE with a job in professional hockey knows more about the sport than I do. And yet, professional hockey people do stupid s*** ALL THE TIME. Examples abound. Peter Chiarelli traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. Ken Holland signed Justin Abdelkader to a 7 year, 4.2 million dollar contract. BOTH of them know more about hockey than I do, both did dumb s***. The fact that Wayne Gretzky knows more about hockey than I do too does not preclude him from being wrong. I'm not a religious person. At all. I could never understand why you'd listen to some other person tell you how to live your life. But at least religious weirdos can scare you into blindly following them with the high stakes of the subject. I REALLY don't understand slavishly following what someone else says, in the face of overwhelmingly obvious logic, when it comes to hockey. It literally doesn't matter at all. Branch out. Think for yourself. You'll be amazed how often you don't agree with Wayne Gretzky. Lol.

Why would you say Rasmussen isn't a fit but Zadina or Veleno is?

If I'm misrepresenting your point, then please elaborate what exactly you're trying to say. Because it sure seems like you're suggesting Wayne Gretzky can't have a stupid opinion because HE'S WAYNE FREAKIN' GRETZKY, BRO!

I will categorically rule out a switch. I'm also 100% willing to bet on it, since I don't believe in talking s*** without backing it up. Reach out to me in messages for the terms of said bet.

Wait, Wayne Gretzky had his number retired league wide? I didn't know that. It only follows then that the Red Wings should draft Lafreniere in hopes of him becoming a top center after never having played that position his life. I stand corrected. Clearly if you're really good as a hockey player you're probably just as good when evaluating talent, and if you're a bad player you're likely also bad as a talent evaluator. Which is why guys like Gretzky and Patrick Roy have lit the coaching world on fire, and why bums like Scotty Bowman, and Al Arbour, and Joel Quenneville have fallen flat. If only the latter group had been better players they'd clearly know that the recipe for winning a Stanley Cup is to take really good players and NOT play them at their natural positions. Good thinking.

Holy strawman!

Lol. Off the top of my head here's a list of elite wingers who haven't played center in the NHL, and are therefore "not on Lafreniere's level" according to your logic: Kucherov, Ovechkin, Panarin, Forsberg, Gaudreau, Hall, Marchand, Laine, Pastrnak, Tarasenko, Wheeler, and Marner. I realize that over the years a select number of players have successfully changed positions at the NHL level. I'm not arguing that it has never been done. I'm arguing that it won't be done in Lafreniere's case. And that it's stupid. If you need a center draft a center. If you want Lafreniere, draft him. But if you need a center and draft Lafreniere expecting to switch him, you're a dips***...despite what Wayne Gretzky thinks. Also, who (aside from you) is comparing Lafreniere to McDavid? Also, also, Gretzky's opinion isn't irrelevant, it's just not the gospel of hockey either. His one and only attempt at player development/deployment was a nightmare. So trying to use some soundbite from him as a cudgel, in this instance, is a bit misguided.

You should definitely double, hell even triple, down on the "Cuz Wayne Gretzky said so" argument. It's working really well for you so far. I don't know if he could or not. I DO know that historically most elite level wingers don't. There's probably a reason for that. Maybe we should ask Wayne Gretzky since he's a hockey oracle now.

This is an example of the Grade A thinking that made Wayne Gretzky a spectacular coach with the Coyotes after his playing days were over.

If Babs was available in the 2020 offseason that would mean that he, yet again, failed to makes waves in the playoffs despite having a STACKED team. This would be about the millionth time that has happened. And one would probably then have to conclude that he's actually not that good of a coach after all. Right?

Agreed, at this point or long term success is more likely to hinge on whether Veleno, Rasmussen, Zadina, Cholowski, Lindstrom/McIsaac, Sieder, and Larsson can viably fill all the holes in the lineup rather than whether we get another lottery pick. At this point our forwards outside Mantha, Bert, Larkin, and AA are HORRIBLE. We essentially need five middle six forwards, about 3 of which need to be impact players. We need 3 top four defensemen. A couple of goalies. Adding a Lafreniere would be nice, all things being equal, but I'd MUCH rather see a few of the guys mentioned above (or others) step up and fill those roles at a competitive level than see a bunch of them underwhelm but add a top end pick.

Agreed. He's done basically everything Holland would do though. Reached on two top draft picks with low offensive upside (rumor has it Holland even wanted Seider at 8th), signed a washed up 35 year old former Red Wing, signed a stay-at-home depth defenseman, and signed a minor leaguer. And since Yzerman was supposed to be a better option than Holland, I'm not sure how someone could give him a passing grade here if they were anti-Holland.

Of the three AA is the only one who has actually played center, so it's better than your first attempt. I I still think the line sucks though, but that's a different discussion.

They were centers playing the wing. Not wingers playing center, as you're advocating. Natural wingers moving to center is extremely rare. Natural centers moving to wing is extremely common. Look, if you want Lafreniere cool, but don't hold your breath for him to play center is all I'm saying. And if you're that desperate for a center then you should probably hope the Wings draft someone else. And defensemen join the rush more than they used to. So what? They're still f*cking defensemen. There's a lot more to playing center than "sticking to the center of the ice" BTW. You don't see Hall or Kane or Tarasenko or Ovechkin doing it for a reason.

Um...I guess? You had him listed as playing center in your line combos above. I'm just saying he doesn't play that position. For what it's worth he also doesn't play defense or goalie in case you envisioned him doing that as well.

Lafreniere isn't a center.

Except Val Filppula, Yzerman loves him some Val Filppula.

Given that the Rangers now need to dump someone to be cap compliant if I were Yzerman I'd consider taking a look at Chris Kreider. If he can be had at a reasonable price he'd be a good asset to move at the deadline next year. He'd also slot in well opposite AA on the 2nd line for the season given he's fast and a good puck retrieval guy. Would likely have to dump one of our lesser forwards in a trade/waive one/keep a kid down until the deadline but the return would be worth it.

Of the top tier prospect I'd prefer to lose Zadina, then Seider, then lastly Veleno. If a throw in is necessary I'd prefer it not be the same position as the main trade chip. So if you trade Seider, don't throw in a defenseman, if you trade Zadina don't throw in a winger, don't have to worry about it if you trade Veleno because we don't have any other decent centers. So while I'd still do the trade you listed above, I'd prefer it be Zadina + McIsaac/Lindstrom + 1st (conditional) OR Seider + Berggren + 1st (conditional). At the end of the day this is all just an intellectual exercise anyway. Tampa is in "win now" mode, they're not letting Point walk. I think they'd trade half their team rather than lose a core guy like him.

He's an RFA, he's not getting 9 or 10 million dollars. And while that team was an offensive juggernaut, it's just as likely that good players playing with other good players is a net positive for all involved. Kinda like how ALL of Mantha, Larkin, and Bertuzzi's numbers increased when they started playing together. It's just as likely that a fair portion of Kucherov's points can be attributed to playing with Point as well. I'd trade ANY of Zadina, Veleno, or Seider plus our 2020 1st (conditional to protect if it's a top 3-5 pick) for Point, and basically any of our mid-tier prospects or roster players as well.

I said a TOP prospect. You're not getting a 23 year old, cost controlled, 90+ point center for cast aways. You're going to pay a premium, which means a 1st (which I hope Yzerman is smart enough to make conditional) and a top prospect (Zadina, Veleno, Seider).

I think you'd have to give up a top prospect and a 1st at least. Probably Zadina or Veleno and a 2020 1st to get the conversation started, maybe a depth prospect on defense as well.

For RFAs there is every reason to wait. Mantha and Bertuzzi will want to wait because both will get more money if they perform as good or better than they did a year ago. Wings' management will want to wait on AA because even though he had a breakout year last season it's hard to tell whether he's going to consistently perform at that level. Wait, see if he does it again, before giving him "30 goal scorer per year" money rather than "20 goal scorer per year" money.