kipwinger

If that's the case then Yzerman should be fired on the spot. You don't say "We're good at center because this kid we already have MIGHT be a solid 2C" That would be absolutely terrible strategy. The whole reason you take the Filip Hroneks of the world is because you can't bank on the guy you liked better (Cholowski) being as good. I'm actually good with Seider AND Tuomisto, and I don't think it necessarily HAD to be one or the other. I'm annoyed that neither seem to have the kind of game changing upside that other players had at 6 and 35. There's always risk involved on draft day, and Yzerman and Co. seem more comfortable with the risk that the guys they took will only turn into good (but not great) players over the risk that they guys they like would still be there later in the draft. Essentially, "we want Mortiz Seider, regardless of what his upside is, and we don't think he'll be available at 35". My preferred strategy would have been, "which player at 6th has the best chance of being a star player". Maybe that's one in the same for Yzerman vis-a-vis Seider, but if so then it should be easy to explain why you think he'll be that good because nobody else seemed to think so. I'd venture to guess that WAY more NHLers developed through the BCHL than through the various minor German leagues. Saying the BCHL is a "lesser league" is true only in the sense that it's not a men's league. But in terms of each league's track record of developing high level NHL players it's not even close.

I don't think enough is being made about the fact that his kid is from a German league. There is NOT a big track record of success, particularly at the higher end of the draft, coming out of Germany. People legitimately questioned Alex Newhook because he played in the BCHL last season, but it appears everyone is basically fine with using a top ten pick on a guy from a league that has NEVER produced a top ten talent. I mean, somebody's gotta be the first, but I haven't seen enough of Seider to make me feel confident that he's the one. Also, I think the team (led by Yzerman) has done a TERRIBLE job selling this kid to the fans. "Ummm...we liked his athleticism...ummm...he should be a good Top 4 two-way defender...ummm...we were going to take him at 35th if we didn't take him here." is not the kinda stuff you really want to hear about a top pick in a pivotal draft. If he's really THIS good, it should be easy to explain why in a way that fans will understand.

I think your logic is spot on. I've argued elsewhere that we have a good crop for forwards. But there are two things wrong with that strategy. First, in this year's draft with a reasonably high pick we passed on guys with "elite" offensive upside (which is never a great plan) to provide more depth. We don't have any game breaking talent, and that's a problem. Depth is great, but a team full of Tyler Bertuzzi's get's crushed by a team full of Tyler Bertuzzi's and one Sidney Crosby or Artemi Panarin or Nikita Kucherov or whomever. Second, while our "fowards" as a group look good, our center depth doesn't. This draft puts HUGE pressure on Veleno to be a high-end top six center. Something that's still very much up in the air. Adding a Cozens, Zegras, or even a Krebs or Newhook takes a ton of pressure off Veleno, and Larkin, going forward. This is, of course, assuming that neither Rasmussen or AA are in the long terms plans at center (and I'd argue they shouldn't be).

There was never an Yzerman love fest from me, if that's who you're directing your comment toward. I was vocally in the minority that I preferred Holland to Yzerman all day every day. Though, from the looks of it our top pick this year wouldn't have been much different with Holland at the helm.

So, I was gone all weekend and am only now getting to review our draft. In short, it sucks. There are some decent players here, but we did nothing to address our biggest organizational weakness: our center depth. Prior to the draft our depth chart was Larkin, Veleno, and (maybe) AA. And it's exactly the same after the draft. The single most important position on any hockey team was completely ignored in a really important draft. We didn't have a really high end defensive prospect before the draft, we don't now. We consistently passed on skill players for guys with intangibles like "hockey sense" and "compete level". It wasn't a complete disaster. Seider will be a good defenseman, but not an elite one. Even if he turns into a Paryako, which is probably his ceiling, a guy like that doesn't significantly change the complexion of our defense or team. He's a good piece but probably not a great one at 6th. Very much the Michael Rasmussen of defensemen (and I'm a Rasmussen fan). Grewe has Tyler Bertuzzi upside, which is a good complimentary piece on a team full of good complimentary pieces. Maybe Tuomisto adds a little offense from the back end, but probably not any more than Cholo or Hronek or McIsaac. But we were a team without any real game changers prior to the draft, and we still are despite a really high pick in a draft with lots of guys with (supposedly) elite upside.

I don't really like this pick but whatever. It's done. Sure hope he starts in the AHL next season though. If one of the key attributes for drafting this guy is how much more NHL ready he is that everyone else then let's get him up and get him playing in the organization as fast as possible.

Don't know how I missed that. Thanks for the heads up.

I'm not nuts about today's pick, but will feel a whole lot better if we nab Philip Tomasino tomorrow.

I'd be surprised if he going before 20th. I just don't see teams taking goalies in the top part of the 1st round. Particularly one who played in an all-star team and was never really challenged all season. Maybe the last 1/3 of the first round. But sooner would really surprise me.

You can count the number of guys on this list who made an offensive impact in the NHL on one hand lol. Apparently Sweden sucks at producing defensemen. But I get your point. Thanks for providing these numbers BTW. Where did they come from?

If you're planning on using them on the 3rd pair then they're not really all that important to trade for are they? And obviously I don't mean "any". If some team is giving guys like that away then sure, take them. But if they're similar stylistically to what you have, and they're not any better, and they're going to cost more than a little, and they're going to play on the 3rd pair, then you probably should think twice about trading for them. Particularly when you guys are talking about trading higher end roster players to get one. The truth is we've got a REALLY good crop of young defensemen already in our system. None of them are a Doughty or a Keith or a Burns, but neither are Fabbro or Bean or anybody else you're likely to trade for. The closest thing to a guy like that was Trouba (maybe) and that seems significantly less likely now. The better course would be to keep your assets, watch how they develop, and look to develop a solid defensive group. Then target a defender with your 1st rounder next year when we'll presumably still have a high(ish) pick.

Any cost is too high considering they're nearly identical stylisically to Hronek and Cholowski and neither are demonstrably better. And you can't really have a top four of identical guys who all have essentially the same pros and cons.

I would hope not. Neither have proven that they're any better than a Hronek or a Cholowski. People get so hung up around here on certain players that they "like" or "want" or whatever that they never stop to ask if they're any good, or if acquiring them would be worth the cost given what we already have. Trading top end assets for a smallish, offensive, defenseman when we've got two smallish, offensive, defensemen who are arguably better is pretty dumb considering a top-four of those guys would get absolutely DOMINATED by most decent teams. As hard as it might be to grasp for the "WE NEED TO ADDRESS OUR DEFENSE IMMEDIATELY!!!!" crowd, it is entirely possible that our stable of young defensemen (Hronek, Cholo, McIsaac, Lindstrom) plus the depth guys (Regula, Barton, Sarijaarvi, and Kaski) might very well be better than any combination we'd have by acquiring someone like Bean or Fabbro...and we wouldn't have to toss away high quality assets to get it.

I'm genuinely not trying to harp on this too much, so bear with me. But "generally unimpressive" compared to what? Because I realize their raw numbers won't be comparable to guys in North American leagues, but are they unimpressive compared to other draft eligible players in the same European leagues over the years?

I definitely understand your argument. And again, I don't know enough about Allsvenskan to double down on this too much. I guess my assumption is that IF it's a similar league to the ECHL, then top of the draft talent should be able to produce reasonably well. And Broberg's numbers seem pretty pedestrian by that league's standards, even among draft eligible players. Like I said elsewhere, he's producing at about the same rate in that league that Gustav Lindstrom did as a draft eligible player. I suppose maybe it's that production COMBINED with the potential that his physical tools gives him. Which would be in line with some of the scouting reports on him I've seen. But I just don't see high level offensive upside with the guy given how little he's produced relative to his peers, both in Allsvenskan as well as in age restricted best on best tourneys. As far as the Russian example you gave, I'd expect Russian players to struggle more than Swedish players in their respective leagues. Given that there are about 140 million more people in Russia I'd expect there to be more good players at every level of hockey. Maybe the top guys in each league are comparable, but the rank and file guys should (theoretically) all be better in Russia. As a result, it should always be a little harder to make the team, get minutes, produce offense, etc. in Russia.

Let's set aside the fact that you wished that twenty year old girl (whom you never even met) flunks out of med school, and/or that two people who seem to really care about each other ultimately break up. We'll just ignore what a miserably cynical point of view that actually is. What I'm REALLY wondering is what you do for a living that puts you in a position to give career advice to the 25 year old millionaire and his soon-to-be doctor girlfriend? I bet you're a stock broker right? Own your own wealth management firm? Independently wealthy entrepreneur? Bingo.

I know, right? Some girl failing to realize her dream of helping people, despite the sincere help and effort from her loved ones, would be f*cking hilarious!

Just seeing this so my apologies for the delay. This is an interesting point, but it's misleading. The SHL isn't the NHL, and Allsvenskan isn't comparable to the AHL as a result. Over the years I've read (as much a possible) about the quality of the various hockey leagues around the world. In most cases where people discuss the relative strength of each league they place the SHL slightly below the AHL. So if we take the SEL and AHL to be roughly equal, then Allsvenskan would be comparable to the ECHL. So while your point still stands that Broberg WAS playing in a men's league, it's not as though it's a very good men's league. And his failure to produce many points against that level of competition is still a concern for me if I were contemplating taking him near the top of the draft. Also, saying that Allsvenskan is like the "worst half" of the AHL is misleading for another reason. The difference in the size and quality of the talent pools between the SHL and the AHL. The AHL is pulling talent from all around on the world, both in terms of prospects on their way up, and NHLers on their way down. The worst teams in the AHL are still NHL affiliates and are still likely to have MUCH more talent being infused into their rosters. Guys who dominate the SHL are generally guys who never made it in North American hockey or are Swedish NHL prospects with a year or two less development then they'll have when they eventually play in the AHL. As a result the "worst half" of the AHL is probably WAY better than Allsvenskan IMO.

While I'm generally fine with the return we got on Nyquist I can't help but marvel at how dumb the conditions were. First, who bets on the Sharks' playoff success? Lol. Terrible. Second, in order to re-sign him they'd basically have to swing and miss on one or both of Pavelski and Karlsson, their top two priorities. Not to mention, as I've stated elsewhere, in order to get a better pick next year we had to get a worse pick this year. Dumb.

I agree that he'd go unclaimed. My point is THAT WOULD BE A BAD THING because you'd having a significant amout of cap space wasted. As long as he's better than at least one other player you're better off riding out his contract with him playing limited minutes and spending significant time in the press box as he continues to age. I swear I'd love to see how half the members of LGW would fare as GMs in the NHL. You'd have 20 rookies on the team and about 30 million in dead cap money.

If the Wings waived him and he went unclaimed they'd eat 3 million dollars per year until 2023. Again, f*cking retarded. And of course the first time during that period that they couldn't sign some UFA that you wanted you'd ***** endlessly about how badly they'd mismanaged the cap.

I agree, and think he should. I also think it won't be a bad thing that he does.

One thing I'm interested in is whether Yzerman will start locking these guys up as RFA's or go the bridge deal route like Holland. I really don't think you want to do "prove it" deals with each of these guys and then find you've got to pay them all a bunch of else risk losing them to UFA. I think I'd go the Dave Poile route and overpay a bit early and hopefully get value on the back end like he did with Josi, Ekholm, and Arvidsson.

No, that isn't what "led us to the cellar". He had Helm, Glendening, Abby, Nielsen, Ehn, and De la Rose all in the lineup, some playing third line minutes or higher. We had one of the worse defensive groups in the league. We had no center depth. AND we were among the most injured teams in the league. Suggesting that keeping Abby and Helm around to be 4th liners is more of "the same" is retarded.

To be honest I don't really care who we take at 35. I just want one of Zegras or Dach at 6th and I'm happy. Larkin, Zegras/Dach, Veleno, and Glendening down the middle with some combination of Bert, Mantha, AA, Zadina, Svech, Rasmussen, Hirose, and Berggren on the wings is a nasty forward group going forward.