kipwinger

I thought you and I had already discussed Podkolzin elsewhere. No, I don't. I'm skeptical of his production and think he's highly regarded not because he's effective but because he's flashy. I'd like him even less if we already had the EXACT same guy already in our prospect pool. I've said already, I like Zegras, Dach, Cozens at 6th or Krebs/Newhook in a trade back scenario. I generally don't like defensemen who don't have offense with a high 1st round selection.

You got me. I was wrong. He has undeniable skill, which is why he absolutely tore up Sweden's Allsvenskan (their 2nd level league) to the tune of 2 goals and 7 assists in 41 games this year. I haven't seen dominance like that from a draft eligible player since...wait for it...Gustav Lindstrom had the EXACT SAME production in 2017. We took that guy with the 38th overall pick BTW. So either Broberg is a big reach at 6th, or Lindstrom was the steal of the century at 38th. Either way, I'm sure it will warm your (easily impressed) little heart to know we already have a right handed, Swedish "two way" defender, with limited offensive upside in our prospect pool. And we didn't have to waste a top ten pick to get him either.

Neither, he doesn't have enough skill to close the deal.

Thanks for using "it" when referring to me. It's extremely progressive of you to be sensitive to my gender identity. Most people aren't PC enough to understand that not everyone identifies in a non-binary way. Not the case with Philip Broberg though. He's a b*tch, through and through.

Assuming all players have SOME chance of being a bust, I'd argue it's still a smarter move to draft the one with the higher ceiling. If your ceiling is "mobile shutdown defender with limited offensive upside" you probably shouldn't be drafted in the Top 10. But what do I know?

What's not to like about drafting a guy who's been compared to Oscar Klefbom with the 6th pick? I mean, that doesn't seem like a waste at all. Particularly when players with considerably more offensive upside are still available. Bold strategy Cotton.

Awesome to see O'Reilly get the Conn Smythe. Dude is pretty awesome, and had a monster playoffs. Surely the Sabres will regret trading him for peanuts now. Oh wait, it's Buffalo. No they won't.

Assuming some combination of Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte, Byram go 1-4 I've narrowed my list to: Zegras Dach Cozens Newhook (trade back scenario) Definitely not Broberg though. That guy blows.

Stop humble bragging, b*tch.

Probably. He's not ranked in the top 10 so I presume he's lazy AND he sucks. Just like LGW to want Yzerman to trade back and draft the Swedish Jay Bouwmeester. If Holland drafted that guy instead of BPA people would want to lynch him.

Broberg sucks.

Buying out Abdelkader would be retarded.

But that's not what you said, and it's also assuming a premise that's very much in debate. You said overripening never produced anything but bottom six forwards and bottom pair defensemen. I named you multiple top six forwards and top four defensemen who were "over ripened". Now it's reasonable to ask whether they would have turned out to be top guys anyway, but I don't think the evidence suggests that was obvious prior to their "over ripening". Aside from Mantha, none of the guys I mentioned were 1st round picks. None of Tatar, Hudler, AA or Bertuzzi were dominating the AHL. Datsyuk was an overager. Zetterberg wasn't even the top prospect we were scouting when we first found him. Even Mantha struggled as an AHLer (leading to the "very very disappointed" comment by Devellano). His rookie AHL season was worse than Svechnikov's. So it's not clear cut that ANY of them were "ready" for the NHL within a year of being drafted, much less ready to be top six forwards or top four defensemen.

What evidence is there that they wouldn't?

Seemed to work out for Howard, Hudler, Tatar, and Nyquist. All of whom spent 3 years in the AHL. If by "multiple years in the minors" you mean 2+ years then that group would include AA, Bertuzzi, and Mantha as well. And that's just the North American "minors". If you include guys from overseas who stayed with their minor clubs for "multiple" years after they were drafted it would include Kronwall (4 years in minors after being drafted), Datsyuk (3 years), and Zetterberg (3 years).

Yeah, that's the most consistent criticism I read on Cozens. But it's essentially the biggest weakness of a player with essentially no weaknesses. With top of the draft picks I tend to temper a lot of what I read in scouting reports because it's important to remember the nature of the comparison. You're essentially comparing REALLY good players with each other in an effort to rank order them, so things like floors and ceilings tend to get thrown out the window for more quantifiable things. When people say Dach is "slow" or Cozens has "less skill" it's only in relation to each other. Dach is probably a really good skater, just not compared to Hughes or Cozens. Cozens' playmaking is fine, just not compared to Hughes or Zegras or Turcotte. It's a little bit of minutiae, but it gets amplified at the top of the draft. And it gets amplified a million more times at the NHL level when every player is really good. Edit: As an aside, this same basic dynamic is why Matt Stafford is ultimately a s***ty quarterback. All of his flaws in decision making, arm slot, throwing off his back foot, throwing into coverage, etc. are fine when he's feasting on garbage NFC central defenses. But in the playoffs, when every team is good, those flaws get amplified by a million and he can't manage a game, convert on 3rd down, or avoid turnovers.

Seems to be in line with what a lot of other people are saying. His size and speed made him elite at that level, and might make him NHL ready soon, but his skill level just isn't as high as the other top end guys. Which is another reason why I like Zegras so much. He helps you at center a lot, but his skill level also is a huge asset on the powerplay. And we desperately need to improve on the PP. We basically had three 30 goal scorers (I'm including Mantha because he was on pace to hit 30 until...durrrr...old time hockey!) and had one of the league's worst powerplays. Improve that and you're talking about a BUNCH more offense for those top guys. Zegras has that ability. Maybe Turcotte, Krebs, Dach, and Newhook too. I just don't see it from Cozens though. He's not really that set up guy we need.

I'm open to a trade back if Zegras, Turcotte, and Byram are all off the board by 6. If any one of them remains an option then you take it. But I don't think there's a big enough difference between the rest for me to care about too much. Provided we take a center. I'm not nuts about Podkolzin or Caufield, not because of their talent necessarily but because I think we're already stacked on the wing between Mantha, Bert, AA, Zadina, Berggren, Rasmussen, and Svech. Our center depth remains our biggest weakness. Even if Veleno becomes a solid 2C (which still remains to be seen) who plays 3C for us? Nielsen? Woof. I'd feel WAY better going forward with Larkin, Veleno, and any of Zegras, Turcotte, Dach, Cozens, Krebs, or Newhook.

To me, a nightmare scenario would be if Hughes, Kakko, Turcotte, Byram, and Zegras were the first five players off the board. I guess Dach would be a decent consolation prize there, but I wouldn't be thrilled. I've really soured on Cozens over the course of the year. Admittedly because scouting reports have consistently criticized his skill level (while lauding his physical tools), and not because I've watched him a lot or anything. I actually liked our position a lot more when Podkolzin was still the presumptive 3rd pick. At this point my list is as follows: T1: Zegras T1: Byram 2: Turcotte 3: Dach T4: Krebs T4: Newhook 5: Cozens We'll definitely land one of then, but I'd HIGHLY prefer it be one of the top 3. So here's hoping one of Chicago, Los Angeles, or Colorado likes Dach, Cozens, or Podkolzin more than I do.

No. It just makes is MORE bad for New Jersey. The Oilers still sold WAY low on their most valuable commodity (McDavid being untouchable obviously).

Clearly someone does or I wouldn't have responded to the post I did.

Not that we need to sign the guy, but I think you're exaggerating a bit here. His .85 points per game this year is basically the same as he's had for most of his career. The injury cost him games, but he was still a VERY effective defenseman on this ice. So I guess my question about Karlsson would be whether he's going to continue to miss time, and not whether he's going to be "in decline". Nothing about his effectiveness seems to be declining.

So will Kris Draper apparently. But protein is protein when you're trying to win faceoffs against Darcy Tucker for the Red Wings alumni team.

I hope we draft this chick. She's a smoke show. At least give her a spot on Wingspan or something amirite? F*ck Carley Johnson

Doesn't @LeftWinger have a friend whose brother's Uber driver's uncle's karaoke dj's sister's baby's daddy's wet nurse is also wet nurse to Kris Draper or something like that?