kipwinger

I mean, I'm not saying he's a bad winger or anything. But he hasn't done anything that Tatar or Nyquist didn't do in their first couple seasons. He just has a higher draft pedigree and he's huge, so people think he's capable of more. I'm just saying I haven't seen it yet. And as a result, I'd be really hesitant to give him big money right now.

Am I the only one who doesn't think Martha is as good as he's portrayed around here? I mean, he's not bad or anything but I don't really see him as definitely a core guy.

Well, that's tricky right ? If I'm reading this guy's message clearly he thinks Svechnikov is playing a responsible game already, doing all the little things right, and therefore he deserves more ice time. I think that's a little different than Jurco or Pulkkinen, for instance, in that they didn't seem to be doing all those little things. And I tend to agree with him, a young guy who's playing the game the right way will rocket up the depth chart in Detroit (see Bertuzzi and Larkin), guys who are doing it part of the time will get part time minutes (see Mantha and AA), and guys who never learn to do it won't play. That's probably the way it should be.

For what it's worth, here's a view of Svechnikov from a scout that writes for The Athletic: " Evgeny Svechnikov As a first-round pick in 2015, Svechnikov is going to be looked upon to be a big piece of Detroit’s future. At first glance on video, he’s one of those guys that as a scout you say: “He looks like a hockey player, he smells like a hockey player but is he a hockey player?” All the tools are there. He’s big, he can skate, he has skill and can handle a puck really well. While watching him skate up and down the ice, it certainly looks like he belongs. But looking at the stats and doing some research, it sounds like the kid is having a tougher transition this year. As a 21-year-old, that can happen. Lately, he has looked more and more comfortable in a Red Wings uniform the more games he has played with the big club. He had his best game against the Philadelphia Flyers and was rewarded with a goal. His biggest strength is in his puck protection. As a big body, he does a really good job using his size to protect the puck from defenders. He made some nice plays in the corners bringing pucks to the net, and by playing a big-man’s game he scored his first career goal by getting to the net. Check out the clips below: I saw some little things that he does well too, details of the game that coaches love from their players. A lot of times, it takes young players a really long time to buy in to these little details (see: Andreas Athanasiou), but they are a huge part to winning games. In the clips below, you’ll see Svechnikov getting pucks out, getting pucks in, making good decisions at the bluelines, good defensive positioning (and nice skill hitting the puck out of mid-air) and finally sacrificing his body to block a shot: I’d love to see more of Svechnikov. If this is a guy that you are planning to have as a big part of your future, the Red Wings should play him more and play him with better players. He has yet to hit 10 minutes of ice time in a game or have more than 15 shifts. He has been playing with Luke Glendening and Marty Frk. I’d love to see him on the wing with Dylan Larkin and Anthony Mantha, instead of Darren Helm … or with Henrik Zetterberg and Gustav Nyquist instead of Tyler Bertuzzi. I understand that you have to earn it, as coach Jeff Blashill has pointed out after games. That’s the Red Wings' mantra. But with two weeks now left in the season, let’s see what the kid can do in an elevated role."

Yeah, I was exaggerating a little too much. Probably a stretch to say Murphy was unskilled. He wasn't. But I don't think he'd be nearly as effective in this day and age. The game has changed away from that style of play while the Bobby Orr's and the Paul Coffey's would be just fine. To hear Bouchard compared to Murphy doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me when most of your better defensemen these days are excellent skaters with high end offensive ability to go with their defensive awareness.

I didn't say anyone was "a lock". I said I've seen a number of scouting reports that suggest Wahlstrom has elite upside, I haven't seen any with the same suggestions about Bouchard. Pretty much everything I read about Bouchard comes with a caveat. Wahlstrom is generally regarded as the best pure goal scorer outside of Svechnikov. Again, not a lock, but if people have said Bouchard has that kind of upside point me in that direction so I can get on the bandwagon too.

I'm curious why you think Boucher has that kind of upside? I haven't seen a single assessment of him which suggests that. What do you see that everyone else is missing?

I mean, elite is elite ya know? Like I said, I'd rather have an elite winger than a really good defenseman. I've read just about every scouting report and mock draft available, and the consensus seems to be that Wahlstrom has that kind of upside and Bouchard doesn't. So I think I'd take him and find my defenseman elsewhere. Plus, I don't think our defense is in as bad of shape as others might going forward. Not to mention we're likely to have two 1st round draft picks again next year (assuming Nyquist gets traded), but no guarantee that they'll be as high as 6th. Better to go with the high end skill guy on this one I think.

You're absolutely right. I don't disagree with your assessment at all. It does come down to a stylistic preference. And while I'd rather have Lidstrom than Doughty, I'd also rather have Josi than Pietrangelo, or Karlsson than Ekblad, or Burns than Vlasic, or Byfuglien than Trouba, or OEL than Parayko, etc. etc. etc. Again, I'm not saying this kid is "unskilled". Clearly he's good or we wouldn't be talking about him. I guess my point is that certain skills may be more useful in today's game than others. And given his draft position, I'd rather have a guy with dynamic offense than a guy who does everything well but nothing exceptionally well.

Relative lack of skill as compared to his peers. He doesn't have standout skating, creativity, or handles. He's got a pretty good shot, but we see how far that got Ryan Sproul. Not saying the kid sucks or anything, just that his skill seems to be his shot and his head, and I'd rather he have speed and creativity.

It was a different game back then. You could be slow, and relatively unskilled, (as Murphy was) and still be really good because of two line passing, weaker defensive schemes, small goalies, etc.. Not anymore. I love Murphy the broadcaster. I love that Murphy taught Lidstrom all about positional, efficient, defensive play. And I really love dollar hot dog night. But I wouldn't draft the actual Larry Murphy in this day and age, let alone someone who plays like him but isn't him.

I think I'm all in on Wahlstrom. I wasn't sold earlier in the year, but given that a number of really high end defensemen may be hitting FA soon, I'd rather look to add one of them in free agency and draft a high end scorer. Wahlstrom could be the Kane to Larkin's Toews, keep Mantha and Ras on a "big boy" line, and let Cholo, Hronek, Sambrook, Sulak, and whoever else fill the spots you don't fill in free agency. I'm not really comfortable with Bouchard. We drafted a guy who was probably less skilled than his peers last year, and while early returns are more positive than I expected, I'm not sure I like the idea of doing it again. It's entirely possible that Rasmussen's size and strength are an X factor that can overcome his relative lack of skill (as compared to his draft peers). Without traits like those, I don't see how Bouchard overcomes that lack of skill at the highest levels. With a pick this high I think we need to draft as close to "elite" as we can, regardless of position. I think Wahlstrom has that upside, I don't think Bouchard does. Personally I'd rather have an elite winger than a pretty good defenseman with this pick.

Hmmmm, maybe I use the number 6 on Wahlstrom, draft skilled defensemen and centers with the remaining picks and go all in on Carlson, or OEL, or Karlsson in free agency. Land one of them over the next two years, add a high end scorer (Wahlstrom), and some higher than average depth, along with Larkin, Mantha, Ras, Svech, AA, Cholo, Hronek, Bert and I like the way the team looks in a few years. I'd also look to move Nyquist for picks at the trade deadline, and very heavily shop all of Howard, Dekeyser, Glendening (or Helm, not both). You need guys in the locker room to teach the young guys how to be good pros. Abby, Z, Kronwall, Daley, Ericssson, Helm (or Glendening), and Neilsen all provide that over the next few years.

Canes have a new owner too, so I doubt that is still a thing.

Will be interesting to see whether Quinn Hughes' play at the World Championships under Jeff Blashill will have any affect on the Wings' draft strategy. He's currently got 2 assists in 3 games against NHL caliber competition.

Bingo.

Don't care if dummies would hate it. The team would be better.

I'd do it even if we got the first overall pick in this year's draft.

I do this trade without batting an eye if I'm Detroit.

I'd take Wahlstrom or trade back and take Wilde. If I draft offense early I take defense with Vegas' pick and vice versa.

Not really sure why so many are down on Wahlstrom. Kid came through the same developmental program as Larkin and bested Dylan in ppg at each stage. If he projects as a center in the NHL I'd be happy with the pick, if he projects as a winger then I pass. But he's a damn good prospect.

Bouchard just seems like another of these lower ceiling higher floor kind of guys to me. I'm not going to pretend like I've watched a bunch of his game or anything, I haven't. But nothing about him stands out to me (aside from his stat line). The fact that he's been compared to Larry Murphy scares the living crap out of me. Larry Murphy is not an ideal for a modern hockey player in my opinion. Again, I don't know. I fluctuate a ton on all these prospects, but right now I'm looking at Boqvist or Hughes if I'm Detroit.

I'm on board the Columbus bandwagon for the playoffs. I'd also find the Caps, Preds, or Jets acceptable.

I've heard Bouchard's skating isn't great. Gives me a ton of pause if true. I like Hughes though. Supposed to be super creative and our team could certainly use a little dynamism.

Ummm...I think Nick Lidstrom was a very, very, very, good hockey player. But he's absolutely NOT my "beloved". If you feel that way about him, you probably need a break from hockey...for like...a while.