kipwinger

This is my life. I spend about 14 hours a day doing policy analysis for the Federal Government, and you would be amazed how many goofballs think they know more about this stuff than they do, and want to argue with you about it. People don't realize the amount of information they AREN'T privy to because they (reasonably) spend all their time thinking about the information they ARE, and they begin to think they know a whole lot more than they do. Not their fault, you only know what you're capable of knowing. But there's likely quite a lot about playing NHL hockey that you need to have played at that level to understand. Information you and I aren't privy to because we can only speculate about it. For the casual fan, thinking about what makes a player successful in the NHL is almost entirely theoretical. And in some areas, like talent scouting in any industry, you need people with experiential knowledge IMO.

I may have missed it but I'm curious who you like in the draft? Assuming we pick around the 7 spot that is.

I don't think they wanted to create divisional rivalries as much as they wanted to utilize divisional rivalries to entice fans to watch the first couple rounds of the playoffs. People usually don't pay that much attention to other teams until the conference finals. I think having Pens/Caps (for example) earlier in the playoffs was just a way to get people to tune in to the earlier rounds.

So you're in favor of bringing someone like Miller or Ott back or no? I'm confused. Because if something doesn't matter you can take two approaches. 1: Do it anyway, because it doesn't hurt anything. 2: Don't do it because there's no utility in doing so?

The 13th forward spot IS A ROSTER SPOT. If I have to explain why having Ott as your 13th forward stops you from having Bertuzzi has your 13th forward then you're too obtuse to even bother with. Now you're advocating signing him only to then waive him? Brilliant. I'm done. You win.

YES! Now you're catching on. Other teams, with better core players, might find our depth players more useful than we do. And since we don't have that kind of a team right now, it's more beneficial to us to play kids, see what we have in them, and move out veteran underachievers WHILE WE'RE REBUILDING OUR CORE. Not, as you seem to be advocating, bringing back aging veterans on the back end of their careers and leaving potential future Wings in the minors. It's really not that hard. I'll break it down for you really simply. Abby is a better player than Ott. So replace Ott with Abby on the fourth line. Then replace Abby with Svech (or Frk) on the 3rd line, since it's likely they'll produce better offense than he did. And have Bertuzzi as a spare forward, learning the pro game, and filling in during injuries. THAT would be an improvement because you've replaced two players with BETTER players in their given roles.

Well, saying "we're not a better team with them" is not the same thing as saying they're "useless". They're NHL players. Obviously they aren't "useless". But we aren't a very good team with those guys. So maybe, just maybe, we should try to find different, better, players with which to rebuild our team and make it better. Again, novel idea.

Yes. I would be 100% against bringing back either Vanek or Smith at this point. Sounds like you'd really like to just re-sign this year's team and give it another go eh? Smith, Vanek, and Ott. Good call. That worked wonders for us this year.

You know which players I "like"? Good ones. Not washed up veterans. Our team is FULL of spare parts. Why sign another one? It would "hurt" because we have kids who are supposed to be part of our future. And to get them on the team we need roster spots. And you seem intent on giving one of those spots to a guy who obviously doesn't make our team better (we've already tried, remember?), and who definitely Isn't going to help us down the road. I"m not sure why this isn't clear. YES we absolutely should be "plugging" holes with kids to see which ones will work out. It worked with Jensen didn't it? MAYBE Frk or Bertuzzi won't pan out. That remains to be seen. But we aren't going to know whether they will or won't if they don't get the opportunity. We ALREADY KNOW that we're not a better team with Steve Ott. It's not like he's an unknown quantity.

You're right. I have a personal vendetta against a man I've never met. That makes WAY more sense than that I don't see the point in needlessly signing an aging free agent who isn't noticeably better (or better at all) than anyone currently on our team and whose presence on the roster would prohibit a younger player from gaining much needed NHL development. Good thinking. I think it's hilarious that a guy who said "Stevie O is the man" is accusing me of having a personal bias. Nice try.

I'm not advocating signing a "Gagner type". We've already got a better center on our team. Helm. And I never once advocated "promoting Bertuzzi to the 3rd line". I advocated putting Frk and Svech on the 3rd line. If you're going to argue with me maybe you should actually read my previous posts. Just to reiterate. Nyq-Z-Mantha Tatar-Larkin-AA Frk-Neilsen-Svech Glen-Helm-Abby Bertuzzi Sheahan

Yes. Unless you're advocating signing him and then not playing him. In which case, why bother?

Lol. This just in. Eli Manning vehemently denies his role in the memorabilia scandal he's been accused of. It's probably all made up. Clickbait and all. I mean, he DID deny it after all.

I would prefer to see the Wings do what Columbus did with its fourth line this season. Get rid of all the useless "grinders" on the 4th, replace them with guys who had formerly been top 9 guys, and replace THOSE guys' spots in the top 9 with young skilled players on entry level contracts. Sam Gagner and Scott Hartnell replaced guys like Jared Boll and Gregory Campbell (who were SUPER MEGA TOUGH), and all they accomplished was a combined 31 goals and 56 assists from the FOURTH LINE. You know what's really super duper hard to play against? A line that can actual control the puck and score goals instead of just hitting and blocking shots. Novel idea I know. Here's an article that helps explain the philosophy. I think it makes way more sense for improving our team. Or we could just keep doing what we did this season, with essentially the same personnel, and expect a different outcome. https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/blue-jackets/blue-jackets-fourth-line-taking-nhl-storm/

Those weren't rhetorical questions, I have literally paid zero attention to Liljegren. I just recall seeing that he was ranked pretty high at the beginning of the season, but that he had a pretty s***ty year.

Nope. I'm saying whether or not we had Steve Ott made no difference at all to our winning and losing. So why sign him again? Why not try to find a solution that actually IMPROVES your team rather than one that does nothing at all? Again, this isn't theoretical. If having Ott made us better, as you're suggesting, then we would have been better when we had him. But we weren't. We were the same crappy team with or without his "hardness to play against" or whatever other stupid intangible you're suggesting he brings to the table.

Right, because we were so much better with Ott than without him lol. It's not like this is theoretical, we already know what a Red Wings team with Steve Ott looks like. I'm not speculating here. We need to improve our top 9, which will push guys like Helm, Abby, and Sheahan DOWN the roster. Not add aging veteran grinders which push guys like that UP the roster. On a good team, Helm and Abby are 4th liners, and guys like Miller and Ott, are in the AHL or are retired.

Hasn't he tumbled down the board since the mid season ranking? Also, aren't his offensive numbers abysmal this year for a top offensive defenseman?

Not a year goes by without some primadonna professional athlete doing or saying something dickish, someone lets the cat out of the bag, and then said player (and their agent) lie and lie and lie about it. It literally happen CONSTANTLY in pro sports. I don't see why anyone would deny the veracity of this.

The big deal is, you've got guys on the roster who are better than Ott, you have guys on the roster you want to be better than Ott, and you're trying to develop you team in order to be competitive again in a few years. So giving a roster spot to a 34 year old grinder at the end of his career is absurd. Why not re-sign Miller if you're dying to bring back a veteran grinder? He had almost the exact same s***ty season that Ott did. Our team is stacked with 4th line types. More than we could ever need. And you're advocating bringing another one in for what? Because you like him? We've got Glendening, Helm, Abby, Sheahan, Bertuzzi ALREADY on the team. Smith too if you're really stretching it. The only way I sign a veteran grinder is if we magically get rid of at least 3 of them in the offseason, which is unrealistic. And WHY would that even make sense anyway? Get rid of grinders so you can sign different, older, less good grinders? It's dumb, regardless of how you look at it.

Because they're overpaid they're unlikely to be "shed". So you'd just be adding Ott's salary on top of theirs, and all of those guys are better players than he is. I can't believe I actually have to explain this. And even if you should shed one of those guys contracts, it would still be better to plug that hole with Bertuzzi since you'd ideally like him to be on the big club anyway.

Agreed. We've already got 3 guys that forecheck well, have 4th line level offense, and are already under contract. Glendening-Helm-Abby. Why do we need someone like Ott? Oh right, because he occasionally punches people. Ugh. Nyq-Z-Mantha Tatar-Larkin-AA Frk-Neilsen-Svech Glen-Helm-Abby

Thank god Eichel isn't Russian. This is a real bad look for the kid.

3 takeaways from this series so far. 1. We need to forecheck as aggressively as Toronto does, Washington cannot break out the puck right now. 2. We need to target Dmity Orlov in a trade scenario, that dude is realgud. 3. Evgeny Kuznetsov might be the most effortlessly impressive skater I've seen since Fedorov.

Yeah, those guys totally suck lol.