kipwinger

I picked those two situations not to say that it ALWAYS HAPPENS that way, but because I think it will happen that way in this instance. Crosby, or Datsyuk, or Toews, or whomever isn't some magic recipe for more goals. Sometimes, if their styles aren't complimentary, a player's goal production will not shoot up drastically...despite playing with better players. I've stated several times now why I think that would be the case with Kessel and Crosby (or Malkin). I'm not trying to denigrate any of those player, they're all really good. But sticking two really good players together doesn't necessarily make two really, super duper, great players. Sometimes it makes them no better, and sometimes worse. IMO this is what will happen with Kessel in Pittsburgh. I do, however, completely agree with the last part. Nothing would satisfy me more than to see Kessel fill the Stanley Cup with Leafs fans' tears. Side note: Jonathan Toews would make Kessel's number jump up more than Crosby's or Malkin's. Just by way of comparison.

That leaves quite a lot of room for speculation lol.

Except he hadn't just won the Cup.

A 36 year old dude just coming off a Cup win. What does he have to play for? No thanks.

So maybe he will, maybe he won't. No sure things in this life. Got it. Good talk.

So your position is that Crosby is elite, and might improve Kessel's play, but then again might not? Bold. I agree. I've addressed that above. Neal is a pure finisher. That's not what Kessel does. Kessel, like Patrick Kane, needs to carry the puck to be most effective. So putting him on a line with a guy who needs to carry the puck to be most effective, isn't a recipe for maximum offensive production. You hear all the time about guys who play well with the puck, vs. guys who play well without the puck. That is exactly the difference between Neal and Kessel. I would ABSOLUTELY imagine Neal's production would increase on Crosby's wing, but not Kessel.

So it's silly so long as you don't agree with it, in which case you like it? How much to you think Crosby is going to increase Kessel's goal scoring? Throw a number out there. Kessel's already about a 30-35 goal scorer. So what do you think Crosby's affect on Kessel translates into, in terms of goal production? Just spitball, I'm not expecting you to have a crystal ball or anything?

The last time I bet someone you seemed to like it. And literally "liked it". So I'm not sure what your issue is. Here's a link. This one's fun because it has to do with Mike Green and what he'd sign for. Which...I got 100% right. So it's not like I'm betting to "win arguments". I'm betting because I think I'm right in those instances, and am willing to back it up. http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/79142-report-jeff-petry-and-munn-tree-all-ruin-2015-free-agency/page-2?hl=%2Bgreen+%2Bfranson+%2Bmartin#entry2613120

I like how everybody on LGW thinks they are 100% right, but never takes a bet. The point of contention is that I don't think Crosby will significantly impact Kessel's goal scoring. They do. Easy enough to see who's right, who's wrong, and who's just arguing for the sake of it.

I think you're taking my posts a little too seriously. Given my long standing love of Drew Miller, and my long standing criticism of Holland's "stand pat" strategy, I thought that would have been clear. Apparently not.

Crosby is one of the best players in the world, and certainly the best center Kunitz ever played with, and in only one, outlier, year did he significantly improve Kunitz' goal total. Every other year in Pittsburgh Kunitz has been exactly what he was emerging into in Anaheim, a mid 20s goal scorer. Likewise, Pavel Datsyuk is by far the best center Hossa ever played with, and he made Hossa a 40 goal scorer...something that Hossa had done four times before ever playing with Datsyuk. Hell, he didn't even reach his goal scoring zenith with Datsyuk feeding him. At least you could argue that Crosby and Kunitz did that together (albeit an outlier). Hossa was a BETTER goal scorer without Datsyuk. But I'll make it easier. I'll bet you $100 dollars, to a charity of your choice, if Crosby significantly improves Kessel's goal scoring (since that was the original point of debate). Since Kessel is already one of the best goal scorers in the league, and since Crosby is one of the best centers in the league, a "significant improvement" in Kessel's goal scoring should equate to him ending the season top three in goal scoring and/or scoring 50 goals. Deal?

No, I'm saying that for the centerman and the winger to have a great affect on one another their styles need to be complimentary. Kessel and Crosby are too similar. For Crosby to score 100+ points, he needs to have (and shoot) the puck...a lot. How is that going to increase Kessel's production? If Kessel were going to be playing on Joe Thorton's wing I'd agree that you'd see a bump in his numbers. But Crosby doesn't really have that affect on his linemates. Production wise, they're about as good with him as without. Pittsburgh's team may be better overall, but Kessel isn't going to be (more of) a scoring machine, because Crosby isn't really a "feed the puck to a winger all game" kind of player.

About as many as he normally does...maybe less. You know how many goals Chris Kunitz scored on Crosby's wing? About as many as he did before he was on Crosby's wing. Hossa on Datsyuk's wing? Same has before he was on Datsyuk's wing. Playing on Crosby's wing isn't going to make Kessel into Ovechkin.

Smith's shot isn't really all that great. His one timer almost never hits the net. He might be a little more effective if he's allowed to skate in a bit, but if you're thinking his shot is an improvement over Dekeyser's you're probably going to be disappointed.

Kessel won't play well with Crosby OR Malkin. In order for each of them to score as much as they do, they need to have the puck...a lot. So does Kessel. He's not a one timer machine like Neal was. He's more like Patrick Kane. They all can't have the puck at once. Somebody's offense is going to suffer. Dumb move for Pittsburgh.

Good to see Rutherford still has no idea what he's doing.

Colorado making every effort to downgrade an already bad team. Good work Sakic. This is why nepotism usually works out badly.

About 38 bucks.

Cleary isn't coming back. He could have been extended at any point up until now and he hasn't for a reason. And even if he does get signed, he'll be in GR for the year. So no worries there. But if you wanted to be a stickler about it, then yeah, neither Cleary nor Miller are Red Wings products. However I'd still contend that a team built 100% with homegrown talent, plus 2 guys picked up off the scrap heap, would still make Holland the best GM in the history of sports.

Arizona? They're terrible and probably looking to spend as little as humanly possible to ice a complete roster. They're also weak up the middle.

The only thing I want Holland to do today is get rid of Drew Miller. That way, when we win the Stanley Cup this year, we'll do it with a 100% homegrown roster. Thus making Ken Holland the greatest GM in the history of sports.

Yes. I like this move. Keeping GR competitive (with veteran players) has a HUGE, and understated, impact on the development of our prospects. I love having guys in GR who work hard, and win, even if they'll never get a call up. Their influence on the young guys cannot be overstated.

I wonder if Weiss will get signed by someone else today? That'll be an interested sub-plot.

Back in 2010-2011 I'd have been fine with signing Ehrhoff with a top four spot in mind. But I'd be really reluctant to now. He's not been great over the last few seasons. Ultimately it's in the scouting staff's hands, but I'm generally worried that he's on the decline.

It's not unlike Gave to exaggerate. He does it regularly. Khan (and St. James) have both made comments like this lately: "Babcock pushed hard for the Weiss signing in 2013 but surely isn't interested in him now, after making him a healthy scratch the final five games of the playoff series against Tampa Bay." "The Wings signed Weiss to a five-year, $24.5 million contract in the summer of 2013, with Weiss' biggest champion being former head coach Mike Babcock." Which Gave is clearly taking way overboard. It's not unlike the decision to bring Cleary back. Ultimately it's Holland's decision to make, but like any intelligent GM he let his coach weight in on the decision and the coach supported it (in some instances strongly). Which is not the same as "against his better judgement, Holland blah blah blah". Links to quotes above: http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/05/how_is_red_wings_potential_pur.html http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/06/13/stephen-weiss-detroit-red-wings/71176856/