kipwinger

Edit: Just to clarify, here's my position on this topic. Zetterberg circa 2008, played at a higher level than Toews ever has. So he's probably the better player overall. But not because Toews is overrated, but because Zetterberg was THAT good. Using points per game averages to decide the better player is dubious, and seems like cherry picking to me. Jason Spezza has better ppg numbers than Zetterberg. Is he better? Is he top ten? Truly elite? Probably not. If the only thing that you can use to criticize Toews' game is ppg, your argument doesn't hold water. All it really says it that Zetterberg is the better scorer, which is objectively true. Here's a list of all Toews' accomplishments. Seems pretty elite to me. All-WCHA Second Team 2006–07 AHCA West First-Team All-American 2006–07 WCHA All-Tournament Team 2007 [48] World U-17 Hockey Challenge MVP — 2005 World U-17 Hockey Challenge — 2005 WCHA Rookie of the Week — twice in 2005–2006 NCAA West Regional MVP — 2006 World Junior All-Star Team — 2007 Nominated for the Calder Memorial Trophy — 2008 4× NHL All-Star (2009, 2011, 2012,* 2015) All-Star selection of the 2010 Olympic Hockey Tournament[33] 2010 Winter Olympics — Gold Medalist, Best Forward[33] 2010 Stanley Cup Champion 2010 Conn Smythe Trophy winner Second-youngest to win the Conn Smythe Trophy (22 years, 41 days; only Patrick Roy was younger); youngest captain to win the Conn Smythe Trophy. Youngest person to gain entry into the Triple Gold Club (22 years, 41 days at time last component was achieved) Named full captain of an NHL team after only 64 NHL games; fourth youngest full captain (Gabriel Landeskog, Sidney Crosby and Vincent Lecavalier being the others) in NHL history and quickest by games One of only six players to win Olympic gold and the Stanley Cup in the same year. 2013 Frank J. Selke Trophy winner 2013 NHL Second All-Star Team 2013 Stanley Cup Champion 2014 Winter Olympics — Gold Medalist 2015 Stanley Cup Champion 2015 Mark Messier Leadership Award winner 2015 ESPY Best NHL Player

It seems like you're trying to show that Zetterberg is better by arguing that Toews isn't that good. Which is a pretty weak argument. Toews' accomplishments speak for themselves. Why not just acknowledge that Toews is a SUPER good hockey player. But that Zetterberg was even better for a few years there? Not sure why you're trying to tear one down to build the other up?

If two Olympic Gold medals and being fortunate enough to have a superstar laden team is good enough to make Mike Babcock the "best coach in the NHL", why isn't it enough to make Jonathan Toews the best player?

I think he probably got paid a little too much. But not terribly so. I guess my overall point is that for negotiation purposes, contracts for guys like Kane, Toews, and ROR matter. But in determining a players actual value they don't say much. All three of those guys got paid the way they did because of externalities. I guess what I'm saying is, there's a tendency to think "Well if O'Reilly got 7.5 then Voracek is worth 8.5". Which is how contract negotiations work, I understand, but it's flawed because O'Reilly isn't actually worth 7.5. He's just worth that to a desperate team.

I agree with your overall point, but I wouldn't look too much into your examples. Toews and Kane are worth whatever they want, for the most part. You can surround them with anybody else and they win you Cups. The return on investment with those two is insane. With O'Reilly it's just a matter of a bad team trying to put itself on the map. Any competitive team wouldn't have paid him that. But Buffalo desperately needs some legitimacy, to get it you need good players, and to get them (if you're a small market and you suck) you have to overpay. Guys like O'Reilly ain't going to Buffalo for the girls and the nightlife.

Aha, I understand you now. That's a legit point.

Toews is not overrated. He's like zetterberg. He's got superior Defense, puck control skills, vision, and competitiveness, and above average everything else. He's just not flashy, which makes everybody go gaga but doesnt make someone one iota more "elite". Kopitar is the same way.

Neither of Ehrhoff or Franson will sign a one year deal. I'd stake my poor reputation on it.

Yes. Z, Nyquist, and Abby isn't that great of a line.

Datsyuk is also highlighted in the Players' Tribune article on elite centers as well. I read all of them, about the offensive guys and the defense too. Some of them are informative, others just seem to be all about pumping other guys' tires. It's a toss up. I like Quick's because it's a goalie talkingabout forwards and not a defenseman talking about defensemen (for example). I'd like to see one about goalies, written by a scoring forward. That would be pretty sweet.

Based on our rousing Rousey discussion yesterday I hopped online and purchased my very own Ronda Rousey tshirt last night. I'll be rocking that s*** like a pro when Rousey smashes the living hell out of some weak ass Brazilian chick this weekend at UFC 190.

Like I said above, best pound for pound fighter in MMA? Probably.

Ronda Rousey would absolutely decimate any tough guy in the NHL. Abby wouldn't stand a chance. In 10 professional fights, including 6 title fights, she's needed exactly 24 minutes of fight time to remain undefeated. She's badder than bad.

Word on the street says Holland is bringing in a special adviser to toughen up the fourth line and add a little bit of the toughness the team's been lacking since Tootoo left. Who is this special adviser you ask? You guessed it. Slaughterhouse in a blouse herself, Ronda Rousey. Edit: This isn't a dig a girls, by the way. I legitimately think Ronda Rousey is the best pound for pound fighter in the world.

I don't hate Andersson. He's useful(ish) I guess. In the same way that Emmerton was. But he's no more physical, defensively responsible, or speedy than either of Callahan or Ferraro. Additionally, each of them have shown considerably more upside than Andersson offensively. His one big plus is that he can, in a pinch, center a line. But so can Dats, Z, Richards, Sheahan, Helm, Glendening, and Abby or Franzen (in a pinch). Plus we've got a couple real quality centers in GR who could fill in if need be. So Andersson's big plus doesn't really have as much utility as it might otherwise. Andersson's roster spot is not even close to guaranteed. The fact that he had one in the first place has to do with the fact that A) our centers have been banged up for the better part of two years, and B) Babcock's default preference is defensive responsibility over any other skillset when forced to choose (anybody remember Nestrasil making the opening day roster last season lol?).

The old eyeball test. Keeping the Earth flat and at the center of the solar system since the dawn of man. Gotta love it.

I agree completely. Screw the Rangers. As far as Stepan goes, it's really not too much of a gamble though. Even if he never improves, you're still getting a 50 point, top six center, who plays great defense, for the prime of his career. And you'd only be paying him about a million more than his actual value if he never improved at all. A 50 pt. guy, at Stepan's age, is generally worth 5.5 on today's market, so it's a mild overpayment if does doesn't improve, and a quality contract if he does. It's not like they're paying for potential here, he's already a very good player, they're just overpaying slightly under the assumption that he'll take the next step. I'm always happy to slightly overpay for a good player, rather than slightly overpay for an unproven guy. The risk seems less.

I think they're probably gambling on the fact that he's only going to get better. Which may or may not be true. He is only 25. It's not unrealistic to think he could get up in the 70 point range, which would make that contract about right.

U.S. Senator calls Pittsburgh "America's hockey capital". What a maroon! http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/u-s-senator-wants-to-see-world-junior-championship-in-pittsburgh-calls-city-americas-hockey-capital/

I could have called him a Roman Reigns fan.

I'm only interested in another defenseman if he's a legit top pair guy. A game changer. A winner. The kind of guy who would throw some punk kid's track suit into the showers without batting an eye. But where would you find such a defenseman? Who could he be?

Also, Dallas will breeze into the playoffs this year. Their forward corps is awesome, and their defense is underrated. Their biggest weakness was in goal, and they addressed it with a perennial winner and Stanley Cup champion. Plus Seguin will be healthy. They'll be the sleeper in the Western Conference.

Oduya isn't better than Ericsson OR Quincey. He's very comparable to both though. Signing him and shipping one of those guys out is just shuffling deck chairs.

Prediction time: Over/under on Jurco scoring 15 goals this season?

I don't think his chances are "slim, to none". Blashill loves the guy. Called him "a player you win with". Used him on the top line in GR. He'll get every opportunity to break in with the big club.