kipwinger

Babcock was overrated. Holland isn't. That's the difference.

"King Henrik" is about as intimidating as a pair of dress socks. Guy can't get it done in the playoffs. I'll count him out for next season right now. He is overblown.

This is awesome. This is Joel Quenneville's house. This is how nuts people went for the Cup last night.

Bad analogy. Apple completely fell apart during the period without Jobs. The product declined significantly, and the company was forced to restructure entirely. Ultimately Jobs was brought back, the company surged under his leadership, and he remained the primary creative force responsible for Apple's explosion in the modern era. In that role he remained, until death. The grass is not always greener.

Bologna. There is no "Bowman Affect". Chicago wins because they have superb talent (not drafted by a Bowman) and superb coaching (not hired by a Bowman). People just want to attach Bowman's name to it because they love hero worship. Everybody loves piling on to a legacy. Scotty Bowman's affect on the Chicago Blackhawks is negligible. They were trending up before Bowman came around, and they'd have been a winner without him. Take a look at the guys Dale Tallon is drafting down in Florida. Look familiar?

Cuz he big. He huge. He more than man. He big man.

Probably. Unless they go to the finals like 5 more times.

To tell the truth, I'm happy about this. I don't want a division rival winning the Cup. I didn't want the Stanley Cup in the south, getting gawked at by mildly bemused tourists and local swamp rats. I don't ever want to hear "The Stanley Cup gets a sun tan" ever again. *Puke*. I don't give a crap about "Stevie winning one", because he stopped mattering to me the second he started working for a rival organization. In short, NOTHING about Tampa winning the Cup would have felt good to me. I don't care about their players, coach, staff, GM, city, or state. Secondly, I don't feel threatened by this. At all. The new Chicago dynasty is (so far) more impressive than our dynasty from 97-08. So what? We still won 4 Cups in 11 years, had top end talent to watch, and made the playoffs every single year. It's still SUPER impressive. Just because the 80's Islanders weren't the 80's Oilers doesn't make them any less awesome. This just put a stamp on something we all already knew. We're no longer the league's model franchise. Oh well, doesn't make our run at the top any less impressive.

You too? You're rooting in favor of a Southern team? You're actively rooting for Gary Bettman's brain child? I never thought I'd see the day when you and Frankgrimes wanted one of Gary Bettman's southern teams to win the Stanley Cup over an original six franchise.

Was he taught to use his size like a pansy or was he just born like that? Damn this old nature vs. nurture argument.

I'm surprised you're rooting so hard for one of Bettman's southern experimental franchises. Again an original six team no less. I mean, do you really want southern expansion proved right? Would Don Cherry root for a team from (gasp) Florida over an original six team?

Nah, I'm not even that strong of a pun maker. I feel like this thread could really have gone super saiyan if Jimmy and BoS were around. When our powers combine...

I can't help it, I'm a neigh-sayer.

Nobody would care. Because one time, Babs and the Wings nearly beat a much better Chicago team before blowing the series and losing three straight games. So for the rest of eternity Chicago will be overrated, Babcock "outcoached" Quenneville, and the Wings aren't that far from contention. Somehow, playing above your head for a few games before totally falling apart is evidence of greatness in Detroit these days.

Time to put these horse puns out to pasture.

The best coach in sport.

O'Reilly is the second coming of Ryan Kesler. I'll let you decide what that's worth to you, but his value to any particular team isn't entirely based on his point production. He's a excellent matchup center and defensive stalwart.

It's awfully hard to score goals from the defensive zone.

I see what you did there.

I agree with that. That's my point. We need an upgrade (or preferably two) in the 2-6 spots in order to get the rest of our guys slotted correctly. Maybe one of these upgrades comes from GR. But you still need another. Doing so helps you sort out where everybody else goes.

Kronwall consistently performs at a level consistent with "#1" defensemen around the league. Across the board. Quality of competition, time on ice, points, corsi, etc. He's easily a top defenseman in the league. Easily. A couple times a year folks question whether he is or isn't, and a couple times a year I've got to tell people to unpack the numbers. The difference between Knonwall and Keith or Hedman is much smaller than the difference between the rest of our defensemen and their counterparts on other teams. The reason everybody keeps saying that we need a "horse" is because it's awesome to have one. And we used to have one. And who wouldn't want one? But in reality, we needs guys like Garrison, Hjalmarsson, Stralman, and Oduya. Keith and Hedman (and Kronwall) are awesome, but they're comparably good. Where our defense falls short, is everywhere else IMO.

Despite the narrative, I don't think Hedman is significantly better than Kronwall. He may be one ray, but not yet. Kronwall is hugely underrated by wings fans.

I honestly think that any two of these moves makes sense, but you'd have to identify which roles you want guys playing in, and be willing to cut bait on a few of our current guys. I absolutely DON'T think that we need a bona fide top pair guy to be effective. Look at what Yzerman was able to accomplish by bringing on Garrison, Carle, and Stralman. None of them are superstars, and he probably overpaid (a little) for two of them. But his defense improved dramatically with them on board. Ideally (I know, it's a low probability), we'd bring on two of these guys. One in the top four (Buff or Franson) and one in the bottom pair (Green or Wiz). Kronwall and Dekeyser are obviously set. Then let Quincey, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Ouellet, Marchenko battle it out of the three remaining spots. Trade the leftovers for picks (minus the ones you used in any initial trades).

I don't see Trouba going anywhere. They're far more likely to trade Byfuglien given his age and contract status. You'd have to really overpay to get Trouba given his potential upside and the fact that he'll be an RFA for quite a while yet. I don't think Seabrook is going anywhere either. I don't see us getting a top two defenseman, unless it's Byfuglien. The next best options would be to sign Franson/Green, or trade for the Wiz. Otherwise there just isn't much available without paying a significant price.

Stafford will score considerably more than 20 points this year. He had 43 last season. Much of it on Buffalo's team. But even if you didn't want him there are better options than trying to convert someone. I mean, there's a reason it rarely happens at the NHL level. I'd sign Scotty Upshall. He wouldn't cost much. He'd give you 20 points and be a hitting, agitating, pain in the ass too. And you wouldn't have to teach him how to be a forward. I guess my point is, why spend the time, effort, and money to fit a square peg into a round hole? Just go get a round peg. They're common enough. I don't feel some pressing need to keep the guy in the organization. It's not like he's some kind of workhorse Dan Cleary type that's good to have around as an example. If he doesn't fit, get rid of him. Edit: Or Shawn Matthias.