kipwinger

I'd agree about Green. He's a bottom pair defender on a good team. But Franson is a pretty significant upgrade over everybody on our blueline other than Kronwall. He's like Dekeyser with offensive skills. The reason he didn't look good in Nashville had more to do with the rest of the defense than with his ability IMO. They already had three point producing defensemen (Weber, Josi, Jones), and Franson wasn't leaned upon that heavily. His ice time went down nearly 6 minutes per game. Not surprising his offense suffered. Nevertheless, he still produced a little and played well defensively. My only question about Franson is his foot speed, which isn't great. I don't like the idea of a slow team. But then again he's probably not much slower than Ericsson, Quincey, or Marchenko, so as long as he's playing where they would be, it's a wash.

Zetterberg was considered the better player earlier in their careers. He was a Rookie of the Year finalist. If anything, he looked more like a star than Dats did early on. Datsyuk wasn't a "complete player" when he came into the league. He learned to play that way later. When he came into the league he was legitimately criticized for being soft on the puck, trying to stick handle too much and not making the simple play, and not shooting enough. His breakout year was his third, and it wasn't until his fourth that people regarded him as one of the top players in the league (which happens when you score 80+ points). And even up through 2007 people were still wondering if he could be "the guy" in Detroit, considering he hadn't been great in the playoffs until that year. This notion that Dats was a superstar right from the start, is completely romanticized.

Unless he had cancer, it's not much of an excuse. He had 3 goals and 9 assists in 37 games over three post seasons. Zetterberg had 9 goals and 2 assists in 22 games over three post seasons. And BOTH of them were playing on a a team chocked full of hall of fame talent. If people are going to talk about Nyquist and Tatar's "struggles", or talk about how they have to be surrounded by stars to look good, they need only look at Dats and Z's careers as evidence of exactly what that means for long term projections. There is a tendency among some Wings fans to act like Dats and Zetterberg were superstars the minute the came into the league, and that everybody knew all along that they'd be great. But it isn't true. When they came into the league they looked like Tatar and Nyquist do now...except maybe not quite as good.

While I don't disagree with your logic, I will say this. Tatar and Nyquist have outperformed Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both regular season and playoffs) at similar points in their careers. Dats and Z weren't very good in the playoffs at all during their first few years. And they were about the same ages when they came into the league (arguably both with MORE experience than Nyquist or Tats). I agree, there's nothing to guarantee that either of these guys will be stars. But based on the information we have, and observation and comparison to our last two stars, I don't think it's out of the question either. At the very least it's premature to think these two guys are don't improving given their respective ages and experience levels. Consistent 65-70 point seasons is not out of the question for either of them. Which isn't super star talent, but isn't anything to scoff at either.

Right, but you're creating one hole to fill another. The Miller-Glendenig-Ferraro line was absolutely steller defensively all series long. They, more than anything else (except maybe Mrazek) kept us in the series. But it's a catch-22. In order to keep Tampa's offense at bay, you had to play our fourth line 18 minutes a night. And if you do that, you won't score much. So you've got to take advantage of the chances you get. We didn't. Plus don't forget that Pulkkinen wasn't exactly scoring like gangbusters before he was sent down. He's not that much of a scoring threat at this point in his NHL tenure. He's also slow as hell, and Babcock stated he wanted a fast roster to keep up with Tampa. I think the right decision was made. We played as well as we could have without winning, but in the end we lost to a team that was simply much deeper and more talented than we were. Just like Chicago two years ago.

I knew there was a reason I liked Tony Granato lol.

I like to imagine this sound coming out of Julien in that picture.

You're right. He's been pretty consistent in seeking out alternative viewpoints, at least since I've been paying attention. But I don't think Number9's comments were as much directed at anything Babs has said or done, but more toward those who seem to think that having more roster input will be a determining factor in his decision making.

True, I guess maybe Julien seems more of a whiner because of his theatrics. Also, I am noticing a French trend here.

God bless you.

I would offer the first overall to Buffalo for the 2nd overall pick, Rasmus Ristolainen, and Sam Reinhart. Let's see how bad they really want Conner McDavid. If they accepted I would then trade Ryan Nugent Hopkins for the best possible veteran top six center I could get (plus whatever else), sign a veteran depth centerman, and look to add one or two veteran defensemen in free agency. All in all, leaving your organization with this as a future core: Jack Eichel Leon Draisaitl Sam Reinhart Taylor Hall Jordan Eberle Nail Yakupov Rasmus Ristolainen Justin Schultz

Awfully scatological lately aren't we?

I'd be really careful about fully trusting Mrazek with the starting job right now. Not because he hasn't been excellent. But because our system limits shots to such a degree that it's a little easier for a young guy to come in and play well. Certainly he had huge games, where he faced a lot of shots and did well, but he also had a lot of games where he didn't face many at all. If Babs leaves, and the system becomes less (excruciatingly) defensive, Mrazek will face more shots on average. And I'd feel more comfortable if we had a veteran like Howard there for insurance. If the kid plays well, then no sweat. And if he struggles at first, you're safe.

I agree. I said as much above. "In all cases I think it's too early to tell just how good they'll be". As far as moving prospects, I'm not opposed to it. But I'm not in favor of moving prospects for marginally better talent, on much worse contracts. The good thing about hanging onto homegrown players is that you can manage the evolution of their salaries a little bit easier because of restricted free agency, bridge contracts, and (hopefully) hometown discounts. Which is good for the team's cap situation. So unless it's a slam dunk, and the guy you're trading for is WAY better, it's usually best to just keep your guys. Honestly, I'd rather see Holland overpay in free agency than overpay at the trade deadline.

It's also worth noting that lots of teams have lots of success, without having Datsyuk and Zetterberg type talent on their team. At one point during the late 2000s, those were the two very best players in the world. Yet it only translated into one Cup. I'm far less concerned with finding another Datsyuk or Zetterberg, than I am with finding an organizational make-up which doesn't require a 2008 era Pavel Datsyuk or Henrik Zetterberg to be successful. If one or two of our guys turn out to be that good, then great, but I don't want that to be our only hope of reaching the Cup again. And thankfully, I don't think it is.

I wasn't really trying to criticize GMRwings as much as figure out which players he was talking about. Certainly I'd agree with him that some of our more highly regarded young talent (Smith, Pulkinnen, Jurco) have struggled to live up to those expectations. But other young players (Nyquist, Tatar, Dekeyser, Sheahan) have been better than what was probably expected of them. In all cases I think it's too early to tell just how good they'll be, but it's worth noting that Nyquist and Tatar have had as good (or better) regular and post seasons than Datsyuk and Zetterberg had at comparable stages of their careers. So I wouldn't completely shut the door on some of our guys developing into first rate hockey players, regardless of how unlikely it might seem.

Very true. If you're going to be a team that's completely geared toward shot suppression, you're not going to get a lot of offensive chances. So you need to take advantage of those you do get. In order to win that series we needed our powerplay going, and we needed to capitalize on chances like that Helm/Tatar 2 on 1 in game seven. Unfortunately, neither happened when we needed it to.

As a fourth line winger? I'm not really sure if Ferraro was being counted on to score. The more relevant question would be "I wonder if Pulkkinen was a better option in this series than Jurco or Andersson"? I still don't think so, but that seems a little more of a fair comparison.

My favorite part of the series was when the Islanders picked a fight with him, ostensibly to "deter" him from running over any more of their defensemen. Which resulted in this...after which he continued running over their entire team. Note to hockey teams: It's kinda counter productive to "send a message" by getting manhandled in a fight you started.

Just wait until Tom Wilson makes an impact. If they're bitching about Backstrom being on the edge, they're going to love Wilson. He made the Islanders completely lose their composure. He's a little like Glendening, only way bigger and tougher. If a fourth liner is completely jamming you up, you're in trouble.

There are whiners, and then there is Claude Julien...King of the Whiners.

Ok, but I didn't ask about Abby or Ericsson. I'm asking about Tatar, Nyquist, and Dekeyser because they were our most heralded young players, and you previously said "I've been listening to people for years tell me how great our prospects are, and they turn out to be decent 2nd pair defensemen and 3rd line players, at best". I'm serious just wondering if you're including them in there, or are you talking about our lesser prospect. Because you'd have a point with Pulkkinen or Smith. But I think no matter how you cut it, Tatar and Nyquist are legit top six forwards, and Dekeyser is a legit top four defenseman. And considering they're only just finishing up their sophmore years, I don't think it's a stretch to think they'll continue to improve their games as well.

Trying to. Tickets are hard to come by. As much as most folks would scoff at me saying this, Washington is a pretty good hockey town and Caps tickets sell for high and don't stay available long. A regular season game will run you 100 bucks, easily. But I work exactly two blocks from the Verizon Center, so I'm always on the lookout. edit: Also, I think I mostly want Ovechkin to win the Cup so that all those obnoxious Canadian blowhards (e.g. Don Cherry) have to watch him raise the Cup, and try to come up with more "reasons" why he's really not any good lol.

Wouldn't it be satisfying to watch him run wild all over the Blackhawks in the Cup finals?

Anybody see that Ovechkin snipe? Yeesh. Have fun Henrik.