kipwinger

I'm against anything that makes us slower. Speed is our friend. Guys like Grossman and Neil are only going to slow us down. All things being equal, I'll take a tougher guy over a weaker one. But all things have to be equal (or close to equal).

The controversy isn't about the relative "goodness" of more guys who can score in different ways. You stated your opinion, but presented it as a "team NEED", and even guaranteed that "most fans" AND the organization have prioritized this same "need". Except they haven't ever, EVER, done so. YOU can think whatever you want. But you don't speak for most fans, or the organization. Have whatever preference you want. That's fine. But it shouldn't come as a surprise when nobody agrees with you on a "team need" that you, AND ONLY YOU, have articulated. Aaaand finally, saying "I'm only talking about my own preferences" after "guaranteeing that most fans" agree with you, AND guaranteeing that the organization has prioritized the same thing, is...bulls***. You're just being argumentative. You tried to generalize your preferences to everybody else, and when you got called out on it, you said "I was only talking about me". You weren't. You spoke on behalf of at least two other groups of people. Stop lying and take it like a man.

So, like I said, You (and apparently some other fans too) covet a right handed sniper. But not the organization. Because despite your guarantees, they have never, ever, mentioned it. Ever...ever, ever, ever, ever. Holland and Co. have had no problem specifically saying they want a right shooting d-man. A puck moving d-man. A top four d-man. A second line center. More center depth. Bigger forwards. More team speed. All mentioned EXPLICITLY. And they've never once mentioned a right shooting "sniper" and yet that's the thing you're focusing on. I just don't understand why. Like I said, I get why you want one. And now that we've got one I wouldn't throw it away for peanuts. But I also wouldn't go over estimating the importance of one either. There are exactly two right shooting "snipers" in the national hockey league, both miles ahead of Pulkkinen, and neither have won a Cup. I don't think it's some secret ingredient for success. I'd MUCH rather have a #1 defenseman than an undersized right shot sniper, for example. Edit: I'll tell you what, you're one hell of an arguer. You're the only person on LGW that will both deny speaking for the organization AND guarantee the things on their priority list, in the exact same post. That's some fancy doublespeak.

I'm posting this diatribe in response to your post, but I'm not aiming it at you. You're didn't do the thing I'm about to rage about, you just referenced it at the bottom of your post. Can we please stop with the "nobody recognizes Dats and Z's greatness" crap already? It's absurd. The Red Wings, and their two stars, get their just due ALL the time. A couple years ago TSN listed Datsyuk as the best player in the world. Wayne Gretzky said he thought our two stars were the best in the business around that same time. They're both consistently ranked near the top of the league in fantasy player rankings, and I've personally seen everyone from Puck Daddy, to Doc Emrick, to Mike Milbury, to P.J. Stock, to Ron McLean singing their praises. Even Don "I hate Foreigners" Cherry has been nothing but complimentary of our guys. This is just more of this wannabe victim crap that I can't stand about some of our fans. The league/refs/Bettman/media don't have it out for us. We're universally considered the finest organization, with some of the finest athletes, in all of professional sports...not just hockey. It's like some fans think we're not credible if we're not constantly facing some sort of faux adversity. There's nothing wrong with being dominant AND being recognized for it...this isn't an inspirational sports film. Add "the media doens't give Dats and Z credit" to the list of dumb ass cliches that Red Wings fans say. Right below "Our fans are spoiled by success" and right above "the league wanted Pittsburgh to win". Rant over.

You're stretching things a little bit here buddy. Who's been coveting a "right handed sniper"? Holland and Babs both mentioned a right shooting defenseman on many occasions, but I defy you to find one single reference to a right handed sniper, nevermind anything close to "coveting" one. YOU covet a right shooting sniper. And in a lot of ways I don't blame you. But the organization has never, EVER, prioritized a right shooting, sniper like, forward. Ever.

I remember something to the effect of, "he's a one trick pony and defenses are starting to figure him out". Lol.

Anybody remember a couple of years ago when there was this weird "Ovechkin is done" theme trending amongst some of the talking heads (and fans who parrot them)? That was pretty dumb thing to think eh?

I thought this gif was from that playoff round? Either way, they're definitely d-bag cry babies. This is your team "leadership" Anaheim. You should be so proud.

How do you retire 13 and not 40 if you're the Red Wings? Seriously, Datsyuk has scored at a .97 ppg, two cups, and three Selkes. Zetterberg has .94 ppg, one cup, is the captain, and has a Conn Smythe. Zetterberg also has better playoff numbers. I honestly don't think either of these two make it into the rafters, and after digging into it, one reason is because it's almost impossible to put one up without the other one.

You're right about that. He could have used the seasoning. I legitimately thought, after last year, that he was ready. But I was wrong on that. He definitely could have used more time to hone his power forward game down there.

Jurco will be fine. He's on a nearly identical developmental trajectory as Abby. As I've said over and over, he's expected to play a type of game in the NHL that he's never played in his life...without the benefit of learning it at the AHL level first. It's going to take some time for him to produce consistent offense. But that doesn't mean he won't. Mark my words, by the time he's Abby's age he'll be a consistent 50 pts. player. In the mean time, he'll play very solid defense, he'll be physical, and he'll work hard. All of that will serve him well a few years down the line. p.s. All of this applies to Mantha too. Just wait and see.

Getzlaf's a jackass. I watched that game. The slash he calls Ovie out on was DEFINITELY a slash, right on his hands, and Ovie didn't react much at all. He shook his hand, and pulled his glove off to look at it, but that's normal. He didn't throw his hand up, or act like he'd been chopped down. Then again, we are talking about the guy who did this when he was losing to Detroit so maybe Ovie's on to something.

Again, I don't really care about those trophies. I wasn't bringing it up to validate Osgood, as much as caution people against putting too much stock in it. Jim Carey, Jose Theodore, and Olaf Kolzig have won Vezinas. Osgood didn't. I'm not sure it means as much as people think it does.

It's also much easier for one guy to be so good that otherwise amazing players can't win hardware. It's basically the same thing as how Lidstrom effectively blocked a bunch of other, really good defensemen, from winning the Norris. Doesn't mean they didn't deserve it though. There were a number of years when Sergei Zubov was the best defenseman in the world not named Lidstrom. Know how many Norris' he has? None. That's why you should always take those awards with a grain of salt. It's better to look at Cup wins, role on the team, and career stats IMO. For instance, Pronger has one more Hart Trophy than Lidstrom, Eric Lindros has one more than Yzerman, Hasek has two more than Roy or Brodeur, and Thornton has one more than Datsyuk and Stamkos. Trophies are misleading.

I honestly don't think this will help. I like teemu well enough. But we've got perimeter scoring. We need scoring from the crease. Abby has been a stud, but when he's off we don't have any power scorers. Which is why I liked Stafford as a deadline acquisition. Our offense is good, it just needs a different look. Not more of the same IMO.

Osgood won the Cup as a starter twice, ten years apart, under two different coaches, systems, and teams (with totally different core players). The "we could have won with anybody" argument doesn't hold water because it makes it seem like he just got that one right in the middle of a dynasty, and then never did s*** again. Fun fact, he outplayed Dominik Hasek to get his second Cup. Osgood was a system goalie only if you mean that regardless of the system, time, players, and coach, he was perfect for the system he was in. But I'm happy that GMRwings brought this up. Because it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The only arguments against Osgood are dumb ones.

Soooo...the argument seems to be that you (and supposedly other people too) don't think he's that great, but not because of any of his accomplishments or stats. Got it.

Oh no! You mean we'd be playing a team that consistently under performs in the playoffs, with a goalie that'd only pedestrian when it matters, a mediocre defense, and who haven't had a single bit more success than the Wings lately, despite having two of the top five players in the world? I'm sure Babs' and the boys are paralyzed with fear.

There really isn't a debate. What's the point of contention? He's got three Stanley Cups. He's got as good or better numbers (regular season and playoffs) than almost all of the top goalies in the league's history. Those are all facts. Every argument I've ever heard against him usually comes down to the ol' eyeball test, or some other such nonsense. "Osgood let in the occasional floater". So did everybody when they were a young goalie. "Osgood played for a good team". So did Roy, Fuhr, and Brodeur. If Osgood had been some flashy headcase everybody would love him, but instead he just won games. Lots and lots of games. What's the argument against Osgood?

Lol. We will upset whoever we play in the first. With a couple tweaks we make a long run. Mark it down.

Hot new prospect out of the Swedish Elite League. He's only 190 lbs. Though so he's not worth a second look.

Retiring Hasek's number is a lot like retiring Chelios' number. Clearly they're both deserving of the honor, but just not for this team (IMO).

Osgood, and nobody else. Chris Osgood is one of the ten best players to ever play his position. He's got the longevity, the hardware, and the numbers. There's no objective measure of an excellent goalie that he doesn't possess in spades. Otherwise, I can't think of anybody else that deserves it.

Athanasiou makes Mantha better. You can tell who drives the play on that line. Athanasiou has been back for like three games, and Mantha got a goal and two assists in that time lol.

I don't think their numbers will be. I could see both of them getting the Hall of Fame, but getting your number retired by the Wings is even harder than getting into the Hall. The only other guy that I'd consider putting in the rafters would be Osgood. He's easily top ten all-time at his position and has all the credentials. But even that, I'd admit, is arguable.