kipwinger

You're doublespeaking too. That's twice you've interjected yourself into it, this most recent time coming an hour and a half after we'd quit talking about it. You're stirring the pot hombre. I do it too. It's cool. But good for you for admitting the limits of your rabbit knowledge and vocabulary. It takes a big man to admit when they're wrong.

I called him out for saying Pulkkinen is the "coveted right shooting sniper we've been longing for", and then guaranteeing that most fans, and the team's management feel the same way. And for saying all that without substantiating it. And then for trying to say "I'm only giving my opinion" whilst "guaranteeing" that "most fans" and team management feel the same way. Which is crap. But yes, you're right. I did say that he shouldn't be surprised that nobody agrees with him. Some people probably do. I've never seen or heard anybody, anywhere, say, imply, or suggest that they coveted a right shooting sniper, but there are probably some. So again, I was wrong. It's so cathartic.

You know, I legitimately never thought about that. It's entirely possible. I think Desert Rat got it right calling him a Mauler though. If that picture is real, good god.

Don't feel dumb. I have seen that picture a ton of times and still have no idea. This is definitely not the first time I've compared that picture to others of Gordie. I've concluded that it's one of three things...1) It's fake, 2) the camera adds 75 lbs. of lean muscle mass, 3) for a couple years in the middle of his career, Gordie Howe was indeed a body double for Lou Ferrigno. I have not made a final determination on which one yet.

I'm about 70% convinced that's photo shopped. I can't prove it, since I have almost no technical knowledge whatsoever. But it just feels fake. Those are like, Hulk Hogan's arms or something. I'm pretty sure, if Gordie Howe was that big, at least one other picture of him would show verify it. But that's the only one I've ever seen like it. It's got to be a fan's photoshop. If it was Brian McGrattan I'd know exactly where to place the blame. Here's one of Gordie and Jean Beliveau in the 50's which seems way more reasonable to me...

Guilty, your honor.

I'd love to man, but that would only be enabling him. You can't begin to address a problem, if you fail to acknowledge that there is a problem. krsmith17 has got to take the loss on this one. If you're going to go around "guaranteeing that management thinks this" or "guaranteeing that most fans feel that", you've got to back it up. And if you can't, you're just plain old wrong. Admitting it is half that battle. This is when the healing begins.

Well they got Niederreiter in the deal so I think they're probably ok with it. He's basically the only top six forward they have who isn't a cupcake.

Oh no, your last resort is to accuse me of never admitting when I'm wrong? What about those two times I admitted I was wrong...just today? Once when I was talking to you...and told you that you were right? Once here when I was talking to you about Jurco: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/77016-time-for-teemu/page-11 "You're right about that. He could have used the seasoning. I legitimately thought, after last year, that he was ready. But I was wrong on that. He definitely could have used more time to hone his power forward game down there." And once here when I was talking about Helm and Abby: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/77150-official-2015-nhl-trade-deadline-thread/page-6 "Agreed. I'd prefer to get him out of the top six, but I certainly don't want him off the team at this point. Admittedly, I was singing a different tune at the start of the season but I was wrong about that. He and Abby have been a big part of this team's success, both because of their own production and because of their ability to battle and retrieve pucks for the skill guys." I seriously defy you to find ANYONE else on LGW who has admitted being wrong even a single time in the last two months, and I did it twice today. But in the mean time, you should probably just stop. This is all starting to look like sour grapes bud. You said a wrong thing, it's ok. When you get called on it next time just say "yeah, that was probably hyperbole", or "yeah, I guess they were specifically talking about a right shot defenseman". It's ok. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. Nobody expects you to be right all the time. And if you just admit you were full of it to begin with, you wouldn't have to say things like "All left handed shots throughout the lineup is clearly the way to go. I apologize for my ignorance...". Which is frankly, beneath you. Take it from me, the guy who can (demonstrably) admit when I'm wrong. I want you to be a better you. It's the Kip effect.

Your original statement was "Pulkkinen is the coveted right handed sniper we've been longing for". Which is you speaking for other people. From the very get go you were trying to speak on behalf other people and when you got called on it, you fell back on this "I'm only speaking for myself" crap. You weren't. Even at the beginning. Now you're saying "A lot" of other people agree with you after you previously "guaranteed MOST fans and the organization" agreed with you. Just stop. This is silly. You've been exposed. You don't get to speak on behalf of "most fans" or the organization without backing it up.

All I'm saying is that I don't think we need a right shot sniper...and I GUARANTEE most fans AND the organization feel the exact same way...but I'm only talking about my preference...and most fans and the organization too...but just me...and them. I guarantee it. But only for me. And everybody else too.

There are plenty of gritty guys who can skate. Glendening, Prust, martin, and clutterbuck come to mind. I don't agree that you have to sacrifice speed for grittiness.

I'm against anything that makes us slower. Speed is our friend. Guys like Grossman and Neil are only going to slow us down. All things being equal, I'll take a tougher guy over a weaker one. But all things have to be equal (or close to equal).

The controversy isn't about the relative "goodness" of more guys who can score in different ways. You stated your opinion, but presented it as a "team NEED", and even guaranteed that "most fans" AND the organization have prioritized this same "need". Except they haven't ever, EVER, done so. YOU can think whatever you want. But you don't speak for most fans, or the organization. Have whatever preference you want. That's fine. But it shouldn't come as a surprise when nobody agrees with you on a "team need" that you, AND ONLY YOU, have articulated. Aaaand finally, saying "I'm only talking about my own preferences" after "guaranteeing that most fans" agree with you, AND guaranteeing that the organization has prioritized the same thing, is...bulls***. You're just being argumentative. You tried to generalize your preferences to everybody else, and when you got called out on it, you said "I was only talking about me". You weren't. You spoke on behalf of at least two other groups of people. Stop lying and take it like a man.

So, like I said, You (and apparently some other fans too) covet a right handed sniper. But not the organization. Because despite your guarantees, they have never, ever, mentioned it. Ever...ever, ever, ever, ever. Holland and Co. have had no problem specifically saying they want a right shooting d-man. A puck moving d-man. A top four d-man. A second line center. More center depth. Bigger forwards. More team speed. All mentioned EXPLICITLY. And they've never once mentioned a right shooting "sniper" and yet that's the thing you're focusing on. I just don't understand why. Like I said, I get why you want one. And now that we've got one I wouldn't throw it away for peanuts. But I also wouldn't go over estimating the importance of one either. There are exactly two right shooting "snipers" in the national hockey league, both miles ahead of Pulkkinen, and neither have won a Cup. I don't think it's some secret ingredient for success. I'd MUCH rather have a #1 defenseman than an undersized right shot sniper, for example. Edit: I'll tell you what, you're one hell of an arguer. You're the only person on LGW that will both deny speaking for the organization AND guarantee the things on their priority list, in the exact same post. That's some fancy doublespeak.

I'm posting this diatribe in response to your post, but I'm not aiming it at you. You're didn't do the thing I'm about to rage about, you just referenced it at the bottom of your post. Can we please stop with the "nobody recognizes Dats and Z's greatness" crap already? It's absurd. The Red Wings, and their two stars, get their just due ALL the time. A couple years ago TSN listed Datsyuk as the best player in the world. Wayne Gretzky said he thought our two stars were the best in the business around that same time. They're both consistently ranked near the top of the league in fantasy player rankings, and I've personally seen everyone from Puck Daddy, to Doc Emrick, to Mike Milbury, to P.J. Stock, to Ron McLean singing their praises. Even Don "I hate Foreigners" Cherry has been nothing but complimentary of our guys. This is just more of this wannabe victim crap that I can't stand about some of our fans. The league/refs/Bettman/media don't have it out for us. We're universally considered the finest organization, with some of the finest athletes, in all of professional sports...not just hockey. It's like some fans think we're not credible if we're not constantly facing some sort of faux adversity. There's nothing wrong with being dominant AND being recognized for it...this isn't an inspirational sports film. Add "the media doens't give Dats and Z credit" to the list of dumb ass cliches that Red Wings fans say. Right below "Our fans are spoiled by success" and right above "the league wanted Pittsburgh to win". Rant over.

You're stretching things a little bit here buddy. Who's been coveting a "right handed sniper"? Holland and Babs both mentioned a right shooting defenseman on many occasions, but I defy you to find one single reference to a right handed sniper, nevermind anything close to "coveting" one. YOU covet a right shooting sniper. And in a lot of ways I don't blame you. But the organization has never, EVER, prioritized a right shooting, sniper like, forward. Ever.

I remember something to the effect of, "he's a one trick pony and defenses are starting to figure him out". Lol.

Anybody remember a couple of years ago when there was this weird "Ovechkin is done" theme trending amongst some of the talking heads (and fans who parrot them)? That was pretty dumb thing to think eh?

I thought this gif was from that playoff round? Either way, they're definitely d-bag cry babies. This is your team "leadership" Anaheim. You should be so proud.

How do you retire 13 and not 40 if you're the Red Wings? Seriously, Datsyuk has scored at a .97 ppg, two cups, and three Selkes. Zetterberg has .94 ppg, one cup, is the captain, and has a Conn Smythe. Zetterberg also has better playoff numbers. I honestly don't think either of these two make it into the rafters, and after digging into it, one reason is because it's almost impossible to put one up without the other one.

You're right about that. He could have used the seasoning. I legitimately thought, after last year, that he was ready. But I was wrong on that. He definitely could have used more time to hone his power forward game down there.

Jurco will be fine. He's on a nearly identical developmental trajectory as Abby. As I've said over and over, he's expected to play a type of game in the NHL that he's never played in his life...without the benefit of learning it at the AHL level first. It's going to take some time for him to produce consistent offense. But that doesn't mean he won't. Mark my words, by the time he's Abby's age he'll be a consistent 50 pts. player. In the mean time, he'll play very solid defense, he'll be physical, and he'll work hard. All of that will serve him well a few years down the line. p.s. All of this applies to Mantha too. Just wait and see.

Getzlaf's a jackass. I watched that game. The slash he calls Ovie out on was DEFINITELY a slash, right on his hands, and Ovie didn't react much at all. He shook his hand, and pulled his glove off to look at it, but that's normal. He didn't throw his hand up, or act like he'd been chopped down. Then again, we are talking about the guy who did this when he was losing to Detroit so maybe Ovie's on to something.

Again, I don't really care about those trophies. I wasn't bringing it up to validate Osgood, as much as caution people against putting too much stock in it. Jim Carey, Jose Theodore, and Olaf Kolzig have won Vezinas. Osgood didn't. I'm not sure it means as much as people think it does.