kipwinger

It's also much easier for one guy to be so good that otherwise amazing players can't win hardware. It's basically the same thing as how Lidstrom effectively blocked a bunch of other, really good defensemen, from winning the Norris. Doesn't mean they didn't deserve it though. There were a number of years when Sergei Zubov was the best defenseman in the world not named Lidstrom. Know how many Norris' he has? None. That's why you should always take those awards with a grain of salt. It's better to look at Cup wins, role on the team, and career stats IMO. For instance, Pronger has one more Hart Trophy than Lidstrom, Eric Lindros has one more than Yzerman, Hasek has two more than Roy or Brodeur, and Thornton has one more than Datsyuk and Stamkos. Trophies are misleading.

I honestly don't think this will help. I like teemu well enough. But we've got perimeter scoring. We need scoring from the crease. Abby has been a stud, but when he's off we don't have any power scorers. Which is why I liked Stafford as a deadline acquisition. Our offense is good, it just needs a different look. Not more of the same IMO.

Osgood won the Cup as a starter twice, ten years apart, under two different coaches, systems, and teams (with totally different core players). The "we could have won with anybody" argument doesn't hold water because it makes it seem like he just got that one right in the middle of a dynasty, and then never did s*** again. Fun fact, he outplayed Dominik Hasek to get his second Cup. Osgood was a system goalie only if you mean that regardless of the system, time, players, and coach, he was perfect for the system he was in. But I'm happy that GMRwings brought this up. Because it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The only arguments against Osgood are dumb ones.

Soooo...the argument seems to be that you (and supposedly other people too) don't think he's that great, but not because of any of his accomplishments or stats. Got it.

Oh no! You mean we'd be playing a team that consistently under performs in the playoffs, with a goalie that'd only pedestrian when it matters, a mediocre defense, and who haven't had a single bit more success than the Wings lately, despite having two of the top five players in the world? I'm sure Babs' and the boys are paralyzed with fear.

There really isn't a debate. What's the point of contention? He's got three Stanley Cups. He's got as good or better numbers (regular season and playoffs) than almost all of the top goalies in the league's history. Those are all facts. Every argument I've ever heard against him usually comes down to the ol' eyeball test, or some other such nonsense. "Osgood let in the occasional floater". So did everybody when they were a young goalie. "Osgood played for a good team". So did Roy, Fuhr, and Brodeur. If Osgood had been some flashy headcase everybody would love him, but instead he just won games. Lots and lots of games. What's the argument against Osgood?

Lol. We will upset whoever we play in the first. With a couple tweaks we make a long run. Mark it down.

Hot new prospect out of the Swedish Elite League. He's only 190 lbs. Though so he's not worth a second look.

Retiring Hasek's number is a lot like retiring Chelios' number. Clearly they're both deserving of the honor, but just not for this team (IMO).

Osgood, and nobody else. Chris Osgood is one of the ten best players to ever play his position. He's got the longevity, the hardware, and the numbers. There's no objective measure of an excellent goalie that he doesn't possess in spades. Otherwise, I can't think of anybody else that deserves it.

Athanasiou makes Mantha better. You can tell who drives the play on that line. Athanasiou has been back for like three games, and Mantha got a goal and two assists in that time lol.

I don't think their numbers will be. I could see both of them getting the Hall of Fame, but getting your number retired by the Wings is even harder than getting into the Hall. The only other guy that I'd consider putting in the rafters would be Osgood. He's easily top ten all-time at his position and has all the credentials. But even that, I'd admit, is arguable.

I agree. I prefer to see career Wings to the extent possible. With Sergei it's about him leaving, but more importantly about WHEN he left. I wouldn't really care if he had a long career in Detroit and then finished out in Russia, or if he bled Red and White and then left at the end for one final shot at the Cup. But he left in his prime. That's a no-go for me if you want to be immortalized at the Joe.

Great player, and integral to the teams resurgence...but I still say his jersey shouldn't be retired. Happy to see him in the Hall though.

Thanks for clarifying. This is the first credible source I've heard say anything about a 1st rounder, but Dreger is usually in the ballpark.

Or read them and relentlessly taunt me. I don't really care. And at the very least I can assure everyone I won't throw a fit and make vague threats about bears in trees. I'm probably responsible for bringing out the very best in you as well. I'm guessing you'll get three extra reps per set on your bench press at the gym tonight. Call it the Kip effect. You're welcome.

Who am I looking at here?

Not really sure how holding him accountable for the things he says in public is "being an ass". Any idiot (including me) in the world is allowed their opinion. And I'd certainly not break Malik's balls over his favorite song, or movie. But when it comes to being a journalist, and Malik has argued over and over that he IS a journalist, you have to be accountable for the things you disseminate for public consumption. And that means fact checking your information BEFORE you make it public, not after. He should be thanking me. I'm helping him live up to the standards he aspires too. I'm helping him be a better journalist. I'm making Malik be the best that he can be. He owes me big time. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that I'm personally responsible for every good thing that happens to George Malik from now on.

Haha, I wouldn't have done that to anybody but Malik. I can't stand that guy. When I rib on Khan or Brendan Savage it's exactly that, me lightheartedly gassing on them. Malik is a different story. He and Helen St. James REALLY get my goat. Sooooo just to be clear, you DON'T like how I behave on the internet? Meh.

Hey man, if you're going to fancy yourself a well spring of public information you'd better be prepared for the sting of public scrutiny. I issue federal government policy statements to the public for a living. You can imagine the kind of lunatics I deal with. I have no sympathy for people who don't check facts before disseminating "information".

And it's official, Malik had his freak out lol. In its entirety... "Excuse me, Bryan has been a trusted source for some time now, and as I was in the middle of work, Winging It asked McKenzie and got the answer before I could… I’m sorry for “reporting” something that was incorrect, but please note that the headline, REPORT, is journalistic slang for, “THIS IS A REPORT, NOT NECESSARILY GOSPEL TRUTH.” I’ve made my apology, Bryan has made a Twitter apology, the situation has been rectified. I’m not Brian *#$%@& Williams, and if you don’t like the way I operate, go read another blog. Rule NUMBER ONE of my job is to not make s*** up—and I didn’t make this up—and rule NUMBER TWO is to cite my sources, which I did. I cited a false report, assuming that the veracity of the report was sound, that was not the case, and I’ve attempted to make amends. If that makes me a fraud in your eyes, you’re barking up a tree with a bear in it." I'm especially fond of the part where he likens himself to a bear. What a ******.

Lol. Touche.

Yeah, it's already been sorted out. McKenzie never said both. Ever. Just dummies making crap up, and other dummies not using professional scrutiny to fact check.

To keep it hockey related, let me just say this...Game of Thrones is to quality television what enforcers are to quality hockey playing.

I wasn't talking about you. Really. I was just repeating the post I made a couple days ago cautioning everybody to be careful when repeating these made up asking prices. I totally understand why you posted it, and (for the record) don't think you're an irresponsible poster. I just gave Malik the "Brian Williams' Fact Checker Award" on his own page lol. I'm going to be soooo disappointed if he doesn't have one of his hissy fits.