kipwinger

Lol. I remember that. What a s*** bag.

I wonder, now that he's been fired, if there's any reason for Dallas Eakins to NOT kick Keven Lowe and Craig Mctavish in the balls four or five hundred times? What a s*** organization from top to bottom. Lazy, entitled, half assed players get raises. Players like Perron get put on the trade block for speaking out. And Dallas Eakins gets fired. How many coaches have to lose with this same group of guys before someone realizes its the players?

Who's the most relieved man in Canada right now?

Miller?

I agree with your position on fighting, but I don't really want to make his a pro vs. anti fighting thread. And you're right, I am assuming people would react differently. That's because in all my life, I've never known a sports fan who was ok with with a questionable referee decision if said decision wasn't in their teams' favor. Occasionally fans will begrudgingly accept a refs' decision if it's too obvious to ignore, or else the outcome of the decision is inconsequential. But if it matters at all, every fan will always take their teams' side. That's what being a fan is all about. So if Smith is winning it's "let em' go ref" and if he's losing it's, "they need to get involved earlier". Same with penalties. Think about it. People ***** and moan about the refs CONSTANTLY on this site, but conveniently leave out the part about how the Wings get more powerplays than almost every other team in the league. Pretty mum on that one, because it helps us out.

That's my whole point. You say that now. But I don't believe, in the wake of just such a hypothetical fight, that you'd take the moral high ground. Nothing personal against you, I'm just basing this off of a long established homer bias that all fans (of all teams) have. People go to EXTREME lengths deny, or justify, reality when it's in favor of the Wings, but not the other way around. Why do you think people get so irritated when Eddie Olczyk talks about the Wings' "subtle interference"? He's not the only one who's called the Wings on that. We DEFINITELY do it. And yet, you can almost hear an audible hiss from our fans each time he brings it up. If Brendan Smith won that fight nobody would be talking about this right now. I'm not saying this because our fans are duplicitous or wishy washy. I'm saying this because our fans are like every other fan on earth. They like getting away with one, and hate when the breaks don't go our way.

Glendening?

Here's why I think this "the refs should have stopped it sooner" argument is bunk. If Smith had been winning the fight, and the refs stopped it sooner, everybody would be irritated that the refs "should have let them go". When you say "usually the refs jump in TOO early" you're suggesting that they're doing something wrong by getting involved before they SHOULD. And now, you're advocating them getting involved before they DID. It's a judgment call for the refs, and when the fight is going well for our boys, people are almost never in favor of stopping the fight. If Brendan Smith had the sweater pulled over Panik's head and was serving him his lunch, everybody would have been fine with the refs' inaction. They'd have LOVED seeing a Red Wing win a fight for once. But because Riley's Brother was getting handled it's somehow wrong for the refs to stand back and "let em' go". I don't buy it.

I agree with some of what you're saying, but I disagree on a few points which I'll describe in more detail after the jump. (Jump) Ok, glad you're still with me. 1. Tyler Myers isf****** horrible. Can we please stop talking about him like he's in the same class as these other guys? If Ken Holland traded ANY of our good assets for a guy with SEVEN points on the season, he should be drawn, quartered, sewn back together, and drawn and quartered again. Also, Myers doesn't even really fill a need anymore considering how we run our new powerplay. In a single point powerplay (as opposed to two point men) the guy in back (defenseman) must be able to skate (since he's the only one consistently monitoring the blue line). Hence why Chara was moved off Boston's powerplay point in favor of Krug. He can't skate (quickly). Neither can Myers. 2. We can't afford Yandle and Green. That's almost 12 million dollars in cap that we can't really afford to take on. It would need to be one or the other. Also, ignoring the cap hit, I still wouldn't want both of them as you'd have a whole bunch of redundancy in terms of skill set. If you acquired both you'd have one of Yandle, Green, or Kronwall sitting on the bench too often to make a difference offensively (especially on the powerplay). One or the other, but not both. 3. Ericsson is probably not going anywhere for a long time, and we should all be thankful. If our defense was some combination of Kronwall, Yandle, Green, Smith, Dekeyser, and those kids, they'd get eaten alive in the playoffs. You still need big bodied, stay at home defenders in this league, and Ericsson is probably one of the most underrated ones in the league. Kindl can go, Quincey can go, and (if Babs' use of Ouellet over Smith has shown) Smith could theoretically go. But Ericsson isn't going anywhere.

I have no problem with Darren Helm...as a third line center. I think in that role he's got a comparative advantage over almost every other third line center in the league. I also think, in that role, he can take on more defensive responsibility (which he seems good at), thus allowing us to exploit matchups. Where I don't like Darren Helm, as should be obvious, is on a scoring line wing. Sure he can be made to look decent there (Ian White could be made to look decent on a top defensive pairing too), but that obscures the fact that his talents are better utilized elsewhere, and somone else (who has the skill set needed to be a top six winger) could be slotted in that spot for maximum efficiency. But what do I know? I'm as wrong about the roster as I am right most of the time. Nevertheless, I'll beat the drum for moving Helm, not because I don't like him, but because he's redundant on this team and we've got a couple of needs to fill to be a true Cup competitor (in my opinion).

We need an offensive, puck moving, d man who can quarterback the powerplay and you'd bring in a career stay at home defender or else a guy who's got about as many points as Jakub Kindl does this year (despite playing 25 minutes a night)? Thank god you're not the GM of this team.

I knew you'd like it. I was waiting for your inevitable comment lol.

No need to trade either of them. Almost every team in the league asks for top young talent, and almost nobody trades it. There's a reason why guys like Stafford, Stewart, Fleishmann, Boyes, Perron, etc. are the names being rumored for trade. Because those are the kinds of guys teams trade. Not their 23 year old future top sixers. Teams can ask all day for Sheahan and Jurco, but they're not going anywhere. Doesn't mean we don't have valuable pieces for trade though.

I'm sure they'd want one of those guys, but it's part of KH's job to make taking Franzen a more palpable idea. Maybe keep the second and upgrade it to a first. Or throw in another middling prospect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it HAS to happen. I don't hate Franzen or Helm. But I don't like Franzen on the third line, and I don't like Helm as a winger in the top six. So if I can get rid of those situations, AND pick up quality players, I'm happy to sacrifice a pick and a prospect (or two).

True. Ugh.

A couple of points I'd make in response. Despite the fact that Rafalski wasn't exactly loved around here, anybody who still doesn't see how valuable he was to the team is nuts. Yandle would be too. Secondly, Boedker is noted for his two way play, I'm not sure where you're getting that from? AND he's capable of putting up points. Finally, I think we get (marginally) more physical in the sense that A) Yandle is more fiesty than any of our d-men and fights (rarely, but on occasion), B) Boedker is physical in the same way that Helm is, plus he's quite a bit bigger and heavier, C) trading Andersson would get Callahan in the lineup, and he's more physical than anybody on our team. And really, what are we losing? Helm? Franzen? Neither of them are particularly strong this season, and I'd be happy to move them plus picks and prospects for two 50 pts. players in their twenties (not exactly mortgaging the future by trading a 22 year old Pulkkinen for a 24 year old Boedkker).

We'll eat those nancys in the playoffs. Steven Stamkos wants nothing to do with a steady diet of Luke Glendening. Nothing.

Rumor has it that Yandle and Boedker can be had. The asking price for Yandle is rumored to be a top line guy, prospect, and second round pick. We've got a top line forward on our third line. No rumored asking price on Boedker. So... Franzen, Helm, Kindl (or Andersson), Pulkkinen, 2nd for Yandle and Boedker Which would give us Nyquist-Z-Abby Tatar-Pav-Boedker Jurco-Sheahan-Weiss Miller-Glendening-Andersson (or Callahan if Andersson went the other way) Thoughts?

I'm not sure where else to pose this query so I'll do it here. Did Ouellet completely leapfrog Smith in the depth chart without anybody saying anything about it? I noticed he was out there late in the game when Babcock put Pav and Z back together, and he had more ice time than Smith. It's no secret that Babs likes the guy, but he's getting up around 20:00 a night in playing time as an injury replacement.

Yikes! Riley's brother just got served his lunch lol.

Anybody know what's going on with Babcock's shirt?

What do you mean, "play like fairies"?

Come off it fellas. The last I knew Detroit had the third most powerplays in the league. There is absolutely not referee bias against Detroit. It's simply not true.

I'm not sure, but is Petr Mrazek totally awesome or not?

I have no idea what that means, but I think I support it?