kipwinger

Might want to use something a little more reliable than whatever website that is. Here's the NHL's stats. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?gameType=2&position=D&season=20132014&sort=points&status=A&team=DET&viewName=summary Kronwall: 23 even strength points Smith: 18 even strength points Dekeyser: 18 even strength points And since Dekeyser played fewer even strength minutes, what do you think that does to your silly stat? I know it's hard to admit you're wrong. It is for everybody. But Smith didn't score the most 5 on 5 points per minute, per game, per year, decade, century, or millenia. He just didn't. You keep trying to make a point that can't be made. And sadly you've reverted to using made up stats and faulty websites as evidence. Pathetic. Here's a 100% factually true statement. Brendan Smith didn't lead our defense in any scoring category. None. Not one. Get over it.

Stale powerplay is stale.

Are Smith and Kindl have a turnover competition?

Atta boy Kindl. Way to turn it over. Not like the Rangers are eating our lunch right now or anything.

Awesome.

Atta boy Brendan. Don't worry about giving the puck up to Nash. He's not having a good season or anything.

Man do I feel sorry for Dan Cleary tonight. If he even breathes the wrong way LGW is going to explode. To say he's under a microscope is the understatement of the season so far.

First of all, I disagree that Yandle isn't good defensively. You've used plus/minus as your only evidence of such and then covered up for it by saying "I don't put stock in it"...right after you put stock in it. If he's bad defensively for his -23 season then he's a stud defensively for his +16 season a few years earlier. It's a bad stat. What I do know is that Dave Tippet is one of the best coaches in the league and values defensively responsible players. If Yandle is playing 26 minutes a night in Tippets system there's no way he's a liability defensively. The second part, points per game, is a little early to tell based on a ten game sample size. But it's safe to say that either of them (Green or Yandle) are considerable upgrades offensively over anybody on our blue line so it's not really a point worth contending. For all intents and purposes they're similar players in most ways. And it will probably not shock you to know that I'd trade Brendan Smith for Mike Green (provided he would sign an extension immediately) as well. I will acknowledge that in my original scenario, trading Smith and Helm for Yandle is probably a little bit of an overpayment. But keep in mind I was "acquiring" Semin too and needed the cap space. All in all I would have no problem losing Helm, Smith, a 1st, and Pulkkinen to obtain Yandle (Green a little less based on injury history) and Semin. Especially since I'd be able to keep all my defensive prospects, young forwards, and Mrazek. I get that you wouldn't. I'm ok with disagreeing on this one.

Green costs more and isn't under contract. Plus he's plays fewer minutes, is injured constantly, and isn't any better defensively. We're miles apart on this d man thing lol.

I mean, I know it sounds completely crazy when you write it that way. But it's actually not as strange as it sounds when you think about it. Z and Franzen were given implied "lifetime contract". It was pretty clearly understood by both the players and GM that those contracts were for the rest of their careers. So no need for the NTC.

This is where you're losing me. Keith Yandle is an upgrade over almost every defenseman in the league. Let alone the Red Wings. You keep saying things like this and I'm lost. Yandle plays 82 games a season, every season. He's averaging 26 minutes of ice time per night, and is scoring almost a point per game. Also, he's in his prime and has earned the trust of a defense first coach in a defense first system. He's one of the best defensemen in the entire league. Why do you keep saying he won't be "much of an upgrade" over Brendan Smith? I know that you like Smith and all, but to say that a guy this good (Yandle) won't be much of an upgrade seems to suggest that Brendan Smith will himself be an all star defenseman. Something he has shown absolutely no indication that he's capable of thus far in his career. When Yandle was the same age as Smith is now he put of 53 points and made the All Star team. It's not an age thing.

And how do we even know that? I just recall this being a rumor. I don't recall this being an actual statement by him. I have a hard time believing the actual hockey "press". Let alone the rumor mill.

Ok, fair enough. I'm not trying to argue with you or anything. If you think that's the difference it's hard to disagree, especially since we haven't seen it. Maybe that is absolutely the missing piece to the puzzle. I have no idea.

I agree. And I've said so a couple of times already. Babs would hate his guts. But there's always a little bug in my brain when I think about this. Remember when we had Brunner, and he didn't play s*** for defense, and he was largely invisible in every other way except that in the first part of the season he was scoring goals? There was a quote from Babs (that I'm trying to track down now) where he says something to the effect of "It's hard to take a guy out of the lineup if he's scoring". Also, and I said so in the GDT as well...If I've heard once, I've heard a thousand times about how Mike Babcock is the best at getting the most out of players. "Every second, of every shift, of every game" seems to be the consensus when it comes to how well Babs' maximizes talent. All last year we heard about how he dragged a bunch of kids into the playoffs through his ability to get the most out of guys. Ok, prove it. Give him this guy. Huge talent, inconsistent. Let's see how true it is. Everybody can coach Pavel Datsyuk. It would take a great coach to get the absolute most out of Semin.

Ok let me ask you this. I'm assuming that you've watched all or most of the games. Based on what you've seen both in our wins and our loses, are you confident that this team can contend with the better teams in the league over a full season and playoffs? Everyone here wants the team to improve. I don't think anybody is going to be happy just squeaking into the playoffs and getting beat early (and badly). So are you confident that we're not that kind of team? I'm not. Regardless of where we sit in the standings with 70 games to go.

First of all, I don't base my opinion of Smith on past success either. If I did, I'd have to conclude that he's going to be great in the NHL since he tore up every lower level he's played in. I base it on his skill set, which I don't think is conducive to the pro game. Same EXACT reason I think Jamis Winston or Johnny Manziel won't be good pro quarterbacks despite earlier successes. Their skill sets aren't right for success in the pro game. I will agree, however, that he's got the potential to be a good (defensive) defenseman. I've never denied that. I just think saying "he's got potential" and suggesting that in a few years he's going to be a better d-man than Keith Yandle are two different things. One I agree with, the other I don't. But I think I understand where you're coming from a little more now. I have yet to see that substantiated...anywhere. I do know that last year when the Wings visited Carolina, Datsyuk and Semin went out for dinner together. Ken Daniels said so during the broadcast. So he can't hate the guy. I get you though. And again, it's a moot point because even if we did acquire him Babs would weld him to the bench. I just salivate thinking about that shot on Dats' wing. Find me another guy with that kind of skill and scoring history who's available and I'll gladly jump on that bandwagon.

A year ago Marian Gaborik had 6 goals (14 pts.) in 22 games for Columbus. He had 1 assist in 5 games for Los Angeles. He has never played a second of defense in any of his 14 year career. He had 14 goals and 22 pts. when paired with Anze Kopitar in the playoffs and was in consideration for the Conn Smythe award. Semin sucks right now. Gaborik did too. Neither are bad players. They just need to be in the right place to bring out the best in their game.

AHAHAHA, since I was bored I actually did the math and determined which of our defensemen had the most even strength points per minute of even strength play. The answer? Danny Dekeyser. So even using your made up stat you're completely wrong. Should we try 5 on 5 per nanosecond of ice time next?

Most of our defensemen do struggle to produce consistent offense. Other than Kronwall. Wait, is that not obvious to you? Also, don't be childish. I don't "hate" Brendan Smith. I don't know the guy. But like I said above about Semin, to me professional athletes are nothing more that a collection of skill sets. Brendan is a great skater and he's a physically tough guy. Both of those will serve him well in the defensive part of the game. But he's a bad passer and doesn't have a great point shot, which isn't conducive to NHL scoring. Also, "5 on 5 with the least amount of ice time"? Did you just invent the "Even Strength Points Per Minute" stat? That's absurd.

What are you basing that on? That's the thing I don't get. Some guys, like Keith Yandle, come out of the gate putting up points and it's easy to imagine them getting better and better. But that's not Brendan Smith. He's struggled to contribute offense for the entirety of his pro career. And I don't think the "he's young" argument holds water. Dekeyser has played fewer pro games than Smith and he's at least as good offensively. I sometimes think that folks equate "flashiness" with potential. Smith is flashy. He's got dynamic skating. But without first rate decision making and a better shot I don't see him ever putting up 40 pts. consistently. For one, because most scoring d-men get their points in transition (where Smith struggles with turnovers) and off the point shot (and rebounds) where he also struggles. Think about how few d-men actually score 40 points and how they do it. They're not going end to end and dekeing and dazzling. They're manning the point and making good, crisp, smart passes. Smith hasn't shown the ability to to either in the NHL so far. I will say this for Smith though, so as not to be entirely one sided. I think that he (and Kindl too) would both be considerably better players if they weren't coached by Mike Babcock. His system, or perhaps his personality, stifles their offensive potential.

I've wanted a first rate shooter on Datsyuk's wing since Hossa left (that year he had almost 100 pts). That's the last time we had someone to bury the myriad chances that Datsyuk creates. When Gaborik was available I wanted Gaborik. I wanted Nash before that. Now that Semin's available I want Semin. There's no mistaking my obsession with this one guiding principle...we have one of the best playmakers of the last 20 years and nobody to finish for him. Dats and Z are both going to get 20+ goals this year, with the right line combos so will Nyquist and Franzen. Semin would too. And Tatar will end up close...but it's iffy. Think about that. It's not about Semin as a person. Sometimes I think fans get attached to players' personalities as if professional sports is a popularity contest. To me, Alexander Semin is nothing more than one of the best shooters in the NHL...and the only one available. That skill set would look awfully nice along side one of the best passers in the game. And what do you know, we happen to already have that guy.

First of all, nobody is "freaking out". While it's probably easier to argue with someone after you've painted them as hysterical, for the sake of reasonable discourse maybe cut down on the hyperbole a little bit. Secondly, I imagine people would be less freaked out if we were steam rolling teams and then just lost a stinker or two here and there. But that's not really the case. Only about half our victories are convincing, and many of our loses are brutal to watch. Be can barely score goals, and our powerplay is a mess. Then add on top of that, two loses in two games to two very bad teams and I think it's reasonable for people to be concerned. Is this the end of the line for our team? Nope. But last season is starting to look vaguely familiar.

Kronwall and Kindl seem to get them off just fine. I think the reason Smith, Ericsson, Quincey, and Dekeyser don't shoot much is because their one timers aren't that good. Same reason Dats doesn't one time the puck much. It's not a strength. I agree that all things being equal, get a righty. My point is that, with Yandle, all things aren't equal. He's miles ahead of almost every other puck moving d-man in the league, and certainly better than everyone on our team. If his only knock is the righty thing, I'll gladly take it knowing that I'm getting a dynamic skating, extremely durable, powerplay stud, in his prime.

Yeah, they'd have to eat some of it. But they seem to be willing to do so based on the rumor mill. You could get him down around 4.5 to 5 mil. But I honestly think you could get him for less, and use Helm as a chip for a top four d-man. The situation in Carolina is bad, and they (like everybody else at the bottom of the standings) don't want to improve until AFTER the draft (McDavide, Eichel, blah blah), so a high pick and a good prospect with a minor league option should do it.

We haven't won a Stanley Cup without Nicklas Lidstrom, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby since 1955 either. So what?