kipwinger

He had a couple of hall of famers on each scoring line too. You didn't need offense out of the grinder. We need the offense now. You could afford to use a spot on a grinder when your other top sixers where going to grab 30-50 goals a piece. We haven't had a thirty goal scorer in years. I'm not sure why you think it will work now, just because it worked then?

Yeah, that's the thing I don't get. I mean, the coaching staff must have a strategy for the shootout, but if they do I simple can't figure out what it is. Tatar didn't shoot in the first two shootouts despite leading the team in shootout goals a year ago, but he was back in last night. Nestrasil shot early in the season (presumably based on some reason), and last night Helm shot (again, hopefully for a specific reason). The only consistency has been Nyquist. I haven't seen any of these guys doing their thing in practice, so I don't really know. But I think I'd identify the two or three guys with the best dekes (probably Dats, Nyquist, and Tatar but who knows, maybe it's Jurco, Nestrasil, or Helm) and those would be my three guys. But I'd probably also have one or two "situational" type guys who can do something different. For instance, last night it was obvious that Bishop was vulnerable glove side high. While I normally wouldn't let Franzen shoot in the shootout (because he can't deke) he might have been a good choice as a "situational" guy because he's got a sneaky fast wrister that he can place glove side high with accuracy.

A couple of them did at lower levels. Both Tatar and Jurco were pretty awesome in shootouts. I don't know if NHL goalies are just that much better (which is at least partially true) or they don't emphasize it enough as a team (which seems to be the case as well). But even our good shooters have gone cold, which makes me think they just never spend time on it. Prior to last year Datsyuk and Bert were lights out in the shootout, and each fell off a cliff last season.

I wonder if there wouldn't be extra incentive for guys to work on shootout moves if you had three or four dedicated shooters and those guys knew that if the game went to a shootout that part of their "role" was to score. No different than a PKer, grinder, etc. I know this is an overly simple example, but look at Oshie in St. Louis. That guy knows that no matter what, if his team goes to a shootout, he's going to shoot every single time. As a result, I'd be really surprised to learn that he doesn't work on that just like he works on other parts of his game.

Dude, the comment about Granato running practice and therefore focusing on the shootout was a joke. I'm actually not "bashing" Babs on this one. I feel like it's pretty straight forward. His team is losing valuable points. He needs to fix it. It's his responsibility. I find it troubling that the guy can say "Obviously, that's something I don't spend a whole lot of time on" about a part of the game that's costing him points. I'm not really sure how I'm bashing him by expecting him to address something that was a HUGE problem a year ago before it was Brewer's job.

Well it would certainly help if the GM got some skilled players rather than stocking his entire team with two way forwards without much offensive talent. But it's not his job to coach the team. Anything happens in the 60 minutes between the opening faceoff and the final horn is on Babcock. If our penalty kill was struggling and Babs said "obviously, that's something I don't spend a whole lot of time on. That's why I got this great video guy named Andrew Brewer. He does all that work and comes out and tells me who to use", people would justifiably lose their minds. This is no different. If he's going to use a system meant to grind out low scoring games, as he's often stated, then he should probably take more of an interest in the shootout, considering his system increases the likelihood that he'll end up in one. Holland's responsible for the roster. Babcock for what happens on the ice.

Babs is taking a personal day today according to Malik. Granato is leading practice. Perhaps that explains it lol.

Who's fault was it when we were equally bad at shootouts a year ago? Babs is the head coach. Final responsibility falls on him, regardless of whether shootouts aren't "something he spends a whole lot of time on". Also, after leaving about 2,000 points on the table as a result of lost shootouts over the last two years, it might behoove Uncle Mike to be a little less cavalier about his disinterest in that part of the game. Seven points separated us from playing Tampa instead of Boston last year in the playoffs. We lost 9 shootouts (and a bunch of overtimes). I'd have been thrilled to play a Bishop-less Tampa while Montreal and Boston beat the hell out of each other for 7 games. Whether the purists like it or not, shootouts matter. I knew I wasn't crazy. But I cannot remember where the hell I read that.

I recall hearing at one point that Brendan Smith actually has pretty decent shootout moves. Maybe I'm just spacing, but I seem to remember that.

Valid point. Worst case scenario I see the Jarnkrok trade ending up like Tomas Fleischmann trade. He was a good prospect, is a good NHLer, and is someone who could have probably contributed over the years. Nevertheless, the trade didn't cripple us long term.

Is that what I said? I thought I was making a point about Ken Holland's overly heavy reliance on homegrown talent, and his stated preference for doing so. Maybe I wasn't clear about that. Or, you've yet again misrepresented something I've said in order to make a point of your own. Based on my original post, which do you think is more likely?

But how do you really feel?

Atta boy Franzen. Nice shot block. Showing some heart kiddo.

Yikes. That was brutal. I just get done defending that pairing and Kindl blows goats on the next shift. Story of my life lol.

Gotcha. I guess I'm giving the whole defense an A for tonight's effort. Tampa is awesome offensively. If we can keep them from scoring 5 on 5 (or keep the scoring to flukey goals like the one they scored), I'm happy with the effort. But I understand your point.

Helm's all over the place tonight. Having a heck of a game. I wish to god he could finish more reliably.

I know right. Not buying it. Which fans said Tampa was one of the greatest teams of all time as you've suggested? If you can show me one I'll recant.

Didn't they score on two powerplay goals and a weird Stamkos snipe from his knees? If Kindl and Quincey are sucking where's the bad result? They're not getting scored on.

You're on fire tonight. Are you drunk?

Who are you telling? I'm the one that picked the name. I fully realize how awesome Kip Winger is. Just look at how he hangs his sunglasses from his banana hammock in that last pic. This guyf****** rules.

Not really the thread for that, but over the last five years there have been plenty of opportunities to acquire pieces through trade or FA in my opinion. I've discussed some trades I'd favor in other threads if you feel like digging for them lol.

My avatar was a Winger album cover for a really long time. But I changed it to Lil' Wayne because he's awesome, and obnoxious, and everyone hates him, and awesome, and sexist, and awesome. I'm a fan of all good heels. I like Rick Flair, I like Gary Bettman, and I like Lil' Wayne. I just can't help it. In the words of the immortal Razor Ramon, "bad times don't always last, but BAD GUYS do".

Is that what we're doing? I thought that I was suggesting that a strategy that they share with last years Stanley Cup finalists (acquiring important pieces of your team through trades and free agency) seems to have some merit to it. Either I wasn't being clear about that, or you're putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting my point in order to make one of your own. Which do you think is more likely based on my original post?

Drunk enough to pay a little too much attention to mustachioed Thelma, and what a dirty girl she is lol.

I saw you argument earlier in the thread about that and actually agree with you. But that hardly makes them a bad team. They're a good team, with a lot of external talent, who has nevertheless not won a Cup.