kipwinger

Good call on Yandle shooting left. Either way, I dont' think it matters as much as many do, so long as your lefties are first rate (Yandle is). Also, come on? Smith's played pretty well this season, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that "he'll be better" than a two time all star, and one of the leading point producing defensemen in the national hockey league for the last 9 seasons. I think you're sleeping on Yandle and inflating Smith's potential just a little bit here.

You weren't. I was attributing someone else's thoughts to you. My mistake.

Semin has three years left on his contract after this year, and Yandle is about the same as Smith defensively (in that neither is terrible, nor are they great) and regularly puts up 50 pts. The difference being that Yandle is an amazing transition player and PP quarterback who shoots right. Weren't you the one bitching in the GDT about how our defensemen can't move the puck in transition? Well here you go, Yandle is on of the best in the entire league at producing offense from the back end. Again, I'd rather move Quincey or Kindl than Smith, but you have to give to get. And anybody who thinks Smith >/= Yandle is nuts.

Coyotes wouldn't ask for that much this year, because if they tank (and they're close to it already) they get a shot at McDavid and Eichel. They don't want to win. If they really need more give them ONE of our good defense prospects in addition. Say what you want about Semin, but history has shown the guy scores goals. I know he's not doing s*** so far (Neither is anybody on Carolina's team), but he didn't forget how to score from last year (look as some of those snipes when you've got a minute). Keep in mind I've got them retaining salary. You don't think you could get enough goals out of him (with Datsyuk as his center) to justify 4.9 million? I do. Especially with that shot. Edit: In 1994 the New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup. On their roster was Alexei Kovalev, the laziest, floaterest, defensive liabilitiest, good for nothing, bad teammate the NHL had ever seen. He had 22 goals and 33 assists in the regular season and 9 goals and 12 assists in the playoffs. Sound familiar. Just imagine how good our PP would be. Mostly this was just for fun though. Obviously it's not happening...though it's feasible considering I gave good value AND didn't acquire anybody who isn't rumored to be available. Can you blame me? I sure as s*** wasn't entertained watching that stinker of a game.

I'm a genius and I just solved all the Red Wings problems. Ok, actually I just felt likef****** around on Capgeek. So here's a custom roster which will have no trouble scoring (but which admittedly would never fly with Babs as head coach). I explained all my moves below. CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER Red Wings FORWARDS Alexander Semin ($4.900m—30.00%) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) Tomas Jurco ($0.709m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.950m) / Tomas Tatar ($2.750m) Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Luke Glendening ($0.628m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) Andrej Nestrasil ($0.550m) / Danny Cleary ($1.500m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) Keith Yandle ($5.250m) / Danny DeKeyser ($2.188m) Kyle Quincey ($4.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.850m) BUYOUTS Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m) Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m) LTIR Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) BONUS OVERAGE NaN ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-11-04) SALARY CAP: $65,982,500; BONUSES: $1,215,833 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,112,840 Roster moves: 1. Traded 1st round pick and T. Pulkkinen for A. Semin (Carolina retains 30% of salary). (Would prefer to trade 2nd round pick, but upgraded to first because they retain salary). 2. S. Weiss to LTIR until end of season. (Regular buy out after season end). 3. D. Helm and B. Smith to Arizona for K. Yandle. (Would prefer to lose Quincey or Kindl rather than Smith, but have to give to get).

This team lacks identity. We've got an organizational philosophy that values skill and puck possession, and a coach that wants to play a grinding, "heavy", crash and bang sort of game (as evidence, look how much our fourth line played tonight late in the game. He clearly prefers grinding, dump and chase hockey). Since the GM, roster, and drafting philosophy aren't going anywhere, Babs is going to have to make some adjustments to his game play to maximize the talent he's got. If he does, we'll come around. If he doesn't, we'll flounder. For years I've heard over, and over, and over again that Babs is the best in the business in getting the most out of his players. Time to test that theory. This is not an untalented team. This is a team that's under performing. Let's see how good he really is at maximizing the talent he's got. Also, Ken Holland, you listening? We need a second line center and another PP capable defenseman. Seriously. f***.

Yuck. Anybody else thinking it's going to be a long night?

Yup. And that didn't work out. So maybe we should think about what to do next. Either that or sit around making excuses about why it can't be any other way than what it is. And guess what, Darren Helm probably isn't the answer. Edit: Now watch, Helm will go off for a goal or two tonight and make me look like a complete ******* lol.

Just an example of the types of options available, lest anyone fall into the trap of thinking that "2nd line centers never get moved". They do. That's just a recent one.

The point was we had the space in the offseason, and still do. Obviously it can't actually be done, he's signed to another team. Son of a Wing was trying to say we didn't have the space, which we did (and nearly still do) in the offseason. Signing Legwand in the offseason wasn't the only conceivable way to get a 2nd line center. Just one way. But had we resigned him it's not unrealistic to think we could have saved money by 1) Not resigning Cleary, 2) not re-signing Quincey with a raise to play in on the third pair (really who didn't see that our top four were going to be Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, and Dekeyser), 3) Waiving or trading Kindl and replacing him with our best young kid on an entry level contract, 4) trading Helm since signing Legwand would have made him redundant. It's not like there weren't options. I concede. There is literally nothing that could be done to improve the 2nd line center position. There was not one single reasonable option. None. And there doesn't need to be one anyway, because Darren Helm is a great 2nd line center and is doing a hell of a job in the top six. He's playing right where he should, both of his, and the team's long term success. I was wrong.

What are you talking about, we nearly have the cap space to sign him still...right now...at his current price tag. You're just making excuses why it wasn't done. Maybe a better question is "why do we expect that"? This is nothing new around LGW. It was the same thing that happened to the defense after Rafalski, then Lids and Stuart left. Everybody always had an excuse why none of the zillion quality defensemen that were signed or traded could have landed here. Yet every other contender finds a way. Not us though. Getting any help from outside the organization is apparently impossible and literally nothing can be done to get Darren Helm out of the top six. Nothing. He had like 11 pts. in 21 games (.5 ppg, fine for a second line center) and more importantly was the center during Nyquist's remarkable run (so at the very least he wasn't impeding 2nd line production. So fizzled out is probably a bit inaccurate. He also, as stated, led our team in points with 51. So if he did "fizzle out", maybe it was our system/coach and not him.

Agreed that we're waiting to see if Weiss comes back and produces. But that shouldn't change Helm's fate. If Weiss does come back and is 100% and effective, then we've got two third line centers (Helm and Sheahan) and one needs to be traded. If Weiss doesn't come back then we've got one guy (Helm) who's a good third line center but not a good enough second line center. So pair him with prospects and/or picks and trade him for a better one. The only way Helm should stay on the team is if he (or Riley Sheahan) start producing like a second line center. Otherwise he's at best redundant, and at worst not good enough.

We had a second line center on our team and let him walk in the offseason!!!!! He led our team in points. Think...really...hard...before...being dismissive. Remember what David Legwand did with Franzen and Nyquist as wingers last year? The very same Franzen and Nyquist who would be his wingers right ******* now if he were still on the team. Why are you acting like it's cosmically impossible to imagine a scenario in which we've got a 2nd line center better than Darren Helm?

I'm trying to, and you keep arguing against it. Darren Helm isn't good enough to be in the top six. In any capacity. Only Mike Babcock, Ken Holland, and you seem to think so.

I know this is a stretch, but here goes. Why don't we leave the top line like it is. And then pair Darren Helm with one or two of the 10,000,000 high quality NHL prospects we've got (that we don't have room for) and trade them for a second line center. Then you could have Z-Dats-Abby Franzen-2nd line center-Nyquist Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco Miller-Glendening-Andersson. Jason Spezza and Ryan Kesler got moved for offers that we could have matched or beaten and we didn't make offers (Kesler had Detroit on his short list at last years' deadline, but not after we fell flat in the playoffs). Not saying it had to be one of those guys...but lets not pretend like it's impossible to trade for a center.

Whoever says that Franzen doesn't produce consistent offense is ******* retarded. That's the only thing he's done consistently his entire career. Barring injury you'll get 20+ goals, and 40-50 pts. out of him like clock work. If you ever encounter someone who says Franzen doesn't produce consistent offense you should hit them in the head with a hammer. Conversely if you meet someone who says Helm doesn't produce consistent offense you should get them to tell you more things that are incredibly obvious and quantifiable statistically.

So he can't even produce offense consistently at his natural position? All the more reason to never let Darren Helm anywhere near the top six...ever. He certainly hasn't been playing on the third line (where he should be).

When Helm starts producing like Abby I'll stop saying it's a bad idea. Or trade him for something you need. He's got some value. Every other team in the history of professional sports trades the thing they've got too much of, for the thing they don't have enough of. Why is it that we feel the need to cram guys into roles they're unsuited for rather than move them for the things we need?

I'm not. Helm has never produced consistent offense his entire career. So why in hell would you put him on a scoring line wing...ya know, the position most directly responsible for scoring goals? While we're at it we can make Brendan Smith a power forward and Jonas Gustavsson a defenseman! It's a free for all!

So he should be a grinder? I agree. It's almost like, with his skill set, he'd be "the best third line center in the league". Seems like I heard that about him once. Instead of being the best third line center, he's been a mediocre scoring line winger. How's that a good use of his talent?

Good point. We should make them centers.

I agree. I was going to go back and say that Babcock AND HOLLAND were obsessed with the idea, but you had already quoted it so I didn't. But you're right. I've been clamoring for Holland to trade some of these guys for a winger or two for a while. What's not to like about 4 assists (2 on the PP) in 11 games from a top six winger? It's not like their job is to put the puck in the net or anything lol.

Malik penned something on it when they shut down but I'm having a hard time finding his blurb. There might not even be any quality info in it, but I just remember him writing something.

Doesn't matter. Everyone knows that if you're a good NHL center you'll be an even better NHL winger. Just ask Mike Babcock. He's obsessed with that idea. And that's worked out wonderfully :-)

I used to go there all the time and check out there prospect reporting. It was clearly the best source of prospect news. Especially overseas prospect news. Bar none.