kipwinger

I agree. And I've said so a couple of times already. Babs would hate his guts. But there's always a little bug in my brain when I think about this. Remember when we had Brunner, and he didn't play s*** for defense, and he was largely invisible in every other way except that in the first part of the season he was scoring goals? There was a quote from Babs (that I'm trying to track down now) where he says something to the effect of "It's hard to take a guy out of the lineup if he's scoring". Also, and I said so in the GDT as well...If I've heard once, I've heard a thousand times about how Mike Babcock is the best at getting the most out of players. "Every second, of every shift, of every game" seems to be the consensus when it comes to how well Babs' maximizes talent. All last year we heard about how he dragged a bunch of kids into the playoffs through his ability to get the most out of guys. Ok, prove it. Give him this guy. Huge talent, inconsistent. Let's see how true it is. Everybody can coach Pavel Datsyuk. It would take a great coach to get the absolute most out of Semin.

Ok let me ask you this. I'm assuming that you've watched all or most of the games. Based on what you've seen both in our wins and our loses, are you confident that this team can contend with the better teams in the league over a full season and playoffs? Everyone here wants the team to improve. I don't think anybody is going to be happy just squeaking into the playoffs and getting beat early (and badly). So are you confident that we're not that kind of team? I'm not. Regardless of where we sit in the standings with 70 games to go.

First of all, I don't base my opinion of Smith on past success either. If I did, I'd have to conclude that he's going to be great in the NHL since he tore up every lower level he's played in. I base it on his skill set, which I don't think is conducive to the pro game. Same EXACT reason I think Jamis Winston or Johnny Manziel won't be good pro quarterbacks despite earlier successes. Their skill sets aren't right for success in the pro game. I will agree, however, that he's got the potential to be a good (defensive) defenseman. I've never denied that. I just think saying "he's got potential" and suggesting that in a few years he's going to be a better d-man than Keith Yandle are two different things. One I agree with, the other I don't. But I think I understand where you're coming from a little more now. I have yet to see that substantiated...anywhere. I do know that last year when the Wings visited Carolina, Datsyuk and Semin went out for dinner together. Ken Daniels said so during the broadcast. So he can't hate the guy. I get you though. And again, it's a moot point because even if we did acquire him Babs would weld him to the bench. I just salivate thinking about that shot on Dats' wing. Find me another guy with that kind of skill and scoring history who's available and I'll gladly jump on that bandwagon.

A year ago Marian Gaborik had 6 goals (14 pts.) in 22 games for Columbus. He had 1 assist in 5 games for Los Angeles. He has never played a second of defense in any of his 14 year career. He had 14 goals and 22 pts. when paired with Anze Kopitar in the playoffs and was in consideration for the Conn Smythe award. Semin sucks right now. Gaborik did too. Neither are bad players. They just need to be in the right place to bring out the best in their game.

AHAHAHA, since I was bored I actually did the math and determined which of our defensemen had the most even strength points per minute of even strength play. The answer? Danny Dekeyser. So even using your made up stat you're completely wrong. Should we try 5 on 5 per nanosecond of ice time next?

Most of our defensemen do struggle to produce consistent offense. Other than Kronwall. Wait, is that not obvious to you? Also, don't be childish. I don't "hate" Brendan Smith. I don't know the guy. But like I said above about Semin, to me professional athletes are nothing more that a collection of skill sets. Brendan is a great skater and he's a physically tough guy. Both of those will serve him well in the defensive part of the game. But he's a bad passer and doesn't have a great point shot, which isn't conducive to NHL scoring. Also, "5 on 5 with the least amount of ice time"? Did you just invent the "Even Strength Points Per Minute" stat? That's absurd.

What are you basing that on? That's the thing I don't get. Some guys, like Keith Yandle, come out of the gate putting up points and it's easy to imagine them getting better and better. But that's not Brendan Smith. He's struggled to contribute offense for the entirety of his pro career. And I don't think the "he's young" argument holds water. Dekeyser has played fewer pro games than Smith and he's at least as good offensively. I sometimes think that folks equate "flashiness" with potential. Smith is flashy. He's got dynamic skating. But without first rate decision making and a better shot I don't see him ever putting up 40 pts. consistently. For one, because most scoring d-men get their points in transition (where Smith struggles with turnovers) and off the point shot (and rebounds) where he also struggles. Think about how few d-men actually score 40 points and how they do it. They're not going end to end and dekeing and dazzling. They're manning the point and making good, crisp, smart passes. Smith hasn't shown the ability to to either in the NHL so far. I will say this for Smith though, so as not to be entirely one sided. I think that he (and Kindl too) would both be considerably better players if they weren't coached by Mike Babcock. His system, or perhaps his personality, stifles their offensive potential.

I've wanted a first rate shooter on Datsyuk's wing since Hossa left (that year he had almost 100 pts). That's the last time we had someone to bury the myriad chances that Datsyuk creates. When Gaborik was available I wanted Gaborik. I wanted Nash before that. Now that Semin's available I want Semin. There's no mistaking my obsession with this one guiding principle...we have one of the best playmakers of the last 20 years and nobody to finish for him. Dats and Z are both going to get 20+ goals this year, with the right line combos so will Nyquist and Franzen. Semin would too. And Tatar will end up close...but it's iffy. Think about that. It's not about Semin as a person. Sometimes I think fans get attached to players' personalities as if professional sports is a popularity contest. To me, Alexander Semin is nothing more than one of the best shooters in the NHL...and the only one available. That skill set would look awfully nice along side one of the best passers in the game. And what do you know, we happen to already have that guy.

First of all, nobody is "freaking out". While it's probably easier to argue with someone after you've painted them as hysterical, for the sake of reasonable discourse maybe cut down on the hyperbole a little bit. Secondly, I imagine people would be less freaked out if we were steam rolling teams and then just lost a stinker or two here and there. But that's not really the case. Only about half our victories are convincing, and many of our loses are brutal to watch. Be can barely score goals, and our powerplay is a mess. Then add on top of that, two loses in two games to two very bad teams and I think it's reasonable for people to be concerned. Is this the end of the line for our team? Nope. But last season is starting to look vaguely familiar.

Kronwall and Kindl seem to get them off just fine. I think the reason Smith, Ericsson, Quincey, and Dekeyser don't shoot much is because their one timers aren't that good. Same reason Dats doesn't one time the puck much. It's not a strength. I agree that all things being equal, get a righty. My point is that, with Yandle, all things aren't equal. He's miles ahead of almost every other puck moving d-man in the league, and certainly better than everyone on our team. If his only knock is the righty thing, I'll gladly take it knowing that I'm getting a dynamic skating, extremely durable, powerplay stud, in his prime.

Yeah, they'd have to eat some of it. But they seem to be willing to do so based on the rumor mill. You could get him down around 4.5 to 5 mil. But I honestly think you could get him for less, and use Helm as a chip for a top four d-man. The situation in Carolina is bad, and they (like everybody else at the bottom of the standings) don't want to improve until AFTER the draft (McDavide, Eichel, blah blah), so a high pick and a good prospect with a minor league option should do it.

We haven't won a Stanley Cup without Nicklas Lidstrom, Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby since 1955 either. So what?

Good call on Yandle shooting left. Either way, I dont' think it matters as much as many do, so long as your lefties are first rate (Yandle is). Also, come on? Smith's played pretty well this season, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that "he'll be better" than a two time all star, and one of the leading point producing defensemen in the national hockey league for the last 9 seasons. I think you're sleeping on Yandle and inflating Smith's potential just a little bit here.

You weren't. I was attributing someone else's thoughts to you. My mistake.

Semin has three years left on his contract after this year, and Yandle is about the same as Smith defensively (in that neither is terrible, nor are they great) and regularly puts up 50 pts. The difference being that Yandle is an amazing transition player and PP quarterback who shoots right. Weren't you the one bitching in the GDT about how our defensemen can't move the puck in transition? Well here you go, Yandle is on of the best in the entire league at producing offense from the back end. Again, I'd rather move Quincey or Kindl than Smith, but you have to give to get. And anybody who thinks Smith >/= Yandle is nuts.

Coyotes wouldn't ask for that much this year, because if they tank (and they're close to it already) they get a shot at McDavid and Eichel. They don't want to win. If they really need more give them ONE of our good defense prospects in addition. Say what you want about Semin, but history has shown the guy scores goals. I know he's not doing s*** so far (Neither is anybody on Carolina's team), but he didn't forget how to score from last year (look as some of those snipes when you've got a minute). Keep in mind I've got them retaining salary. You don't think you could get enough goals out of him (with Datsyuk as his center) to justify 4.9 million? I do. Especially with that shot. Edit: In 1994 the New York Rangers won the Stanley Cup. On their roster was Alexei Kovalev, the laziest, floaterest, defensive liabilitiest, good for nothing, bad teammate the NHL had ever seen. He had 22 goals and 33 assists in the regular season and 9 goals and 12 assists in the playoffs. Sound familiar. Just imagine how good our PP would be. Mostly this was just for fun though. Obviously it's not happening...though it's feasible considering I gave good value AND didn't acquire anybody who isn't rumored to be available. Can you blame me? I sure as s*** wasn't entertained watching that stinker of a game.

I'm a genius and I just solved all the Red Wings problems. Ok, actually I just felt likef****** around on Capgeek. So here's a custom roster which will have no trouble scoring (but which admittedly would never fly with Babs as head coach). I explained all my moves below. CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER Red Wings FORWARDS Alexander Semin ($4.900m—30.00%) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) Tomas Jurco ($0.709m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.950m) / Tomas Tatar ($2.750m) Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Luke Glendening ($0.628m) / Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) Andrej Nestrasil ($0.550m) / Danny Cleary ($1.500m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) Keith Yandle ($5.250m) / Danny DeKeyser ($2.188m) Kyle Quincey ($4.250m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.850m) BUYOUTS Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m) Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m) LTIR Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) BONUS OVERAGE NaN ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-11-04) SALARY CAP: $65,982,500; BONUSES: $1,215,833 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $1,112,840 Roster moves: 1. Traded 1st round pick and T. Pulkkinen for A. Semin (Carolina retains 30% of salary). (Would prefer to trade 2nd round pick, but upgraded to first because they retain salary). 2. S. Weiss to LTIR until end of season. (Regular buy out after season end). 3. D. Helm and B. Smith to Arizona for K. Yandle. (Would prefer to lose Quincey or Kindl rather than Smith, but have to give to get).

This team lacks identity. We've got an organizational philosophy that values skill and puck possession, and a coach that wants to play a grinding, "heavy", crash and bang sort of game (as evidence, look how much our fourth line played tonight late in the game. He clearly prefers grinding, dump and chase hockey). Since the GM, roster, and drafting philosophy aren't going anywhere, Babs is going to have to make some adjustments to his game play to maximize the talent he's got. If he does, we'll come around. If he doesn't, we'll flounder. For years I've heard over, and over, and over again that Babs is the best in the business in getting the most out of his players. Time to test that theory. This is not an untalented team. This is a team that's under performing. Let's see how good he really is at maximizing the talent he's got. Also, Ken Holland, you listening? We need a second line center and another PP capable defenseman. Seriously. f***.

Yuck. Anybody else thinking it's going to be a long night?

Yup. And that didn't work out. So maybe we should think about what to do next. Either that or sit around making excuses about why it can't be any other way than what it is. And guess what, Darren Helm probably isn't the answer. Edit: Now watch, Helm will go off for a goal or two tonight and make me look like a complete ******* lol.

Just an example of the types of options available, lest anyone fall into the trap of thinking that "2nd line centers never get moved". They do. That's just a recent one.

The point was we had the space in the offseason, and still do. Obviously it can't actually be done, he's signed to another team. Son of a Wing was trying to say we didn't have the space, which we did (and nearly still do) in the offseason. Signing Legwand in the offseason wasn't the only conceivable way to get a 2nd line center. Just one way. But had we resigned him it's not unrealistic to think we could have saved money by 1) Not resigning Cleary, 2) not re-signing Quincey with a raise to play in on the third pair (really who didn't see that our top four were going to be Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, and Dekeyser), 3) Waiving or trading Kindl and replacing him with our best young kid on an entry level contract, 4) trading Helm since signing Legwand would have made him redundant. It's not like there weren't options. I concede. There is literally nothing that could be done to improve the 2nd line center position. There was not one single reasonable option. None. And there doesn't need to be one anyway, because Darren Helm is a great 2nd line center and is doing a hell of a job in the top six. He's playing right where he should, both of his, and the team's long term success. I was wrong.

What are you talking about, we nearly have the cap space to sign him still...right now...at his current price tag. You're just making excuses why it wasn't done. Maybe a better question is "why do we expect that"? This is nothing new around LGW. It was the same thing that happened to the defense after Rafalski, then Lids and Stuart left. Everybody always had an excuse why none of the zillion quality defensemen that were signed or traded could have landed here. Yet every other contender finds a way. Not us though. Getting any help from outside the organization is apparently impossible and literally nothing can be done to get Darren Helm out of the top six. Nothing. He had like 11 pts. in 21 games (.5 ppg, fine for a second line center) and more importantly was the center during Nyquist's remarkable run (so at the very least he wasn't impeding 2nd line production. So fizzled out is probably a bit inaccurate. He also, as stated, led our team in points with 51. So if he did "fizzle out", maybe it was our system/coach and not him.

Agreed that we're waiting to see if Weiss comes back and produces. But that shouldn't change Helm's fate. If Weiss does come back and is 100% and effective, then we've got two third line centers (Helm and Sheahan) and one needs to be traded. If Weiss doesn't come back then we've got one guy (Helm) who's a good third line center but not a good enough second line center. So pair him with prospects and/or picks and trade him for a better one. The only way Helm should stay on the team is if he (or Riley Sheahan) start producing like a second line center. Otherwise he's at best redundant, and at worst not good enough.

We had a second line center on our team and let him walk in the offseason!!!!! He led our team in points. Think...really...hard...before...being dismissive. Remember what David Legwand did with Franzen and Nyquist as wingers last year? The very same Franzen and Nyquist who would be his wingers right ******* now if he were still on the team. Why are you acting like it's cosmically impossible to imagine a scenario in which we've got a 2nd line center better than Darren Helm?