kipwinger

I'm trying to, and you keep arguing against it. Darren Helm isn't good enough to be in the top six. In any capacity. Only Mike Babcock, Ken Holland, and you seem to think so.

I know this is a stretch, but here goes. Why don't we leave the top line like it is. And then pair Darren Helm with one or two of the 10,000,000 high quality NHL prospects we've got (that we don't have room for) and trade them for a second line center. Then you could have Z-Dats-Abby Franzen-2nd line center-Nyquist Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco Miller-Glendening-Andersson. Jason Spezza and Ryan Kesler got moved for offers that we could have matched or beaten and we didn't make offers (Kesler had Detroit on his short list at last years' deadline, but not after we fell flat in the playoffs). Not saying it had to be one of those guys...but lets not pretend like it's impossible to trade for a center.

Whoever says that Franzen doesn't produce consistent offense is ******* retarded. That's the only thing he's done consistently his entire career. Barring injury you'll get 20+ goals, and 40-50 pts. out of him like clock work. If you ever encounter someone who says Franzen doesn't produce consistent offense you should hit them in the head with a hammer. Conversely if you meet someone who says Helm doesn't produce consistent offense you should get them to tell you more things that are incredibly obvious and quantifiable statistically.

So he can't even produce offense consistently at his natural position? All the more reason to never let Darren Helm anywhere near the top six...ever. He certainly hasn't been playing on the third line (where he should be).

When Helm starts producing like Abby I'll stop saying it's a bad idea. Or trade him for something you need. He's got some value. Every other team in the history of professional sports trades the thing they've got too much of, for the thing they don't have enough of. Why is it that we feel the need to cram guys into roles they're unsuited for rather than move them for the things we need?

I'm not. Helm has never produced consistent offense his entire career. So why in hell would you put him on a scoring line wing...ya know, the position most directly responsible for scoring goals? While we're at it we can make Brendan Smith a power forward and Jonas Gustavsson a defenseman! It's a free for all!

So he should be a grinder? I agree. It's almost like, with his skill set, he'd be "the best third line center in the league". Seems like I heard that about him once. Instead of being the best third line center, he's been a mediocre scoring line winger. How's that a good use of his talent?

Good point. We should make them centers.

I agree. I was going to go back and say that Babcock AND HOLLAND were obsessed with the idea, but you had already quoted it so I didn't. But you're right. I've been clamoring for Holland to trade some of these guys for a winger or two for a while. What's not to like about 4 assists (2 on the PP) in 11 games from a top six winger? It's not like their job is to put the puck in the net or anything lol.

Malik penned something on it when they shut down but I'm having a hard time finding his blurb. There might not even be any quality info in it, but I just remember him writing something.

Doesn't matter. Everyone knows that if you're a good NHL center you'll be an even better NHL winger. Just ask Mike Babcock. He's obsessed with that idea. And that's worked out wonderfully :-)

I used to go there all the time and check out there prospect reporting. It was clearly the best source of prospect news. Especially overseas prospect news. Bar none.

McKenzie actually claimed on trade deadline day that Jarnkrok "may" have already signed a deal in the Swedish Elite League with the intent of returning. That's a little more significant than saying he had thought about going home in the past. Your quote lends credence to the fact that Jarnkrok had thought about it before. It does not, in any way, back up the kinds of comments that McKenzie and others (George Malik said he "threatened" to go back) were making. That was rumor mongering plain and simple.

Left out the second half of that quote... "but at the same time would it be hard to give up here and move back home. All the players want to play in the NHL, and to throw away this chance after just one season felt too weird". Kinda paints a different picture doesn't it? Still doesn't validate the "he was going to leave for Sweden" rumor. All he seems to have said is that the transition was tough and he thought about it before deciding that he would be "throwing away" a chance.

Again, that's how rumors are perpetuated. Because they can't be proven wrong with certainty. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence blah blah blah. That all just obscures the fact that not a single credible piece of evidence (testimonial or otherwise) has been given to suggest this information is true. It's all based on something "heard from a source". Well, I heard otherwise from Jarnkrok and Ryan Martin. That seems a little more credible to me. If McKenzie wants to be a reporter then he needs to confirm a story before reporting it. If he wants to report things he hears without sourcing them, then he's a jackass who's adding to the rumor mill.

Let that be further evidence that you shouldn't promote rumors based on unattributed "sources". Bob McKenzie isn't a bad commentator. But his job is to create discussion around hockey events, not necessarily be fair or accurate. Before Bob reports these types of things he should put a call in to a team, player, or agent. But that wouldn't be any fun would it?

Those were the same lines that ended the last game. It just looks like they swapped the second and third lines. Perhaps because the Nyquist-Sheahan-Tatar line had the better offensive push last game. The Franzen line was still finding it's feet a little in my opinion.

You can't prove that he's NOT spending time with Lisa Ann. And they both COULD be lying if they denied it. As such, it's theoretically plausible. Good enough for me.

And just because some jackass in the rumor mill said something doesn't make it legit either. I'm basing my information on the guy himself and Wings management. While not 100% it's better than a completely unsubstantiated rumor. Is your point that there's no way of knowing 100%? If so, I agree. If your point is that because the Wings and Jarnkrok COULD be lying that there's something to the rumor, then I disagree. Isn't that how all rumors catch on? The fact that they can't be proven wrong doesn't mean that they're even remotely right. I'll take my information from the source. You take it from wherever you want.

Lisa Ann is about 10,000 times hotter than most of the women any of us will ever be with. I've seen the wives and girlfriends floating around the Midwest. Not exactly runway models. Oh, but she's skanky you say? Wanna know who else is skanky? Every single college girl that graduated from Central Michigan University between 2005 and 2012. Believe me. But I don't see anybody turning their noses up at these "ladies". Presumably because they're "respectable" with their promiscuity. Atta boy Del Zotto. Keepin' it live for the rest of us regular joes.

David Leggio is the same guy who did this spot on impression of Pierre McGuire while talking to his buddy Tyson Strachan whom we saw last night against the Sabres.

Christ. That "back to Sweden" rumor has been debunked so many times it's not even funny and yet it still gets repeated. Both the Red Wings front office (Assistant GM Ryan Martin) as well as Jarnkrok himself have denied that this was ever a factor. Whatever else may come of this kid's career, he was NOT traded because he was a "back to Sweden" flight risk.

Agreed. I'm just saying that he's not producing because he's not getting any opportunity, not because he's no good. He's only getting checking line minutes (13:26 per game) and at 180 lbs. he's not going to do you much good on a checking line.

Well it is Lisa Ann. Kinda hard to blame the guy.

Probably so that Nashville's entire season wasn't resting on the shoulders of an NHL rookie with a mere 12 games of experience under his belt. Would you feel good going into a season with Riley Sheahan as your #1 center?