kipwinger

Troll away troll lol. You'll never get me to bite on opening day. I'm just in too good of a mood.

I'm not saying Mule is a workaholic or anything. But I don't think he's "a soft, lazy, floater" either. If you haven't noticed, once people around here (and around hockey in general) start saying something, it keeps getting said no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary. Babcock was using Franzen on the PK last year...before the injuries started to happen. He didn't have to, he chose to. Somehow I doubt that the hockey coach equivalent of IBM's Deep Blue supercomputer would use a lazy, soft, stupid, weak, pathetic, spineless, ***** on the PK just for kicks.

We're certainly not as physical as Boston. Good thing we don't play them 82 times every season. Also, I don't think Franzen is as big a pattycake as everyone makes him out to be. He battled along the walls all the time. Babcock wouldn't play him as much as he does if Franzen didn't.

A great American poet once said "Is it worth it, let me work it, I put my thing down, flip it and reverse it". Truer words have never been spoken. And in that spirit of flipping it and reversing it I'm going to guess Jurco scores on a sexy feed from Tatar. God Bless the Detroit Red Wings, and God Bless Missy Elliott.

I don't think "being physical" matters at much as people tend to think. Many fans (around the league) think if you're big and you're not playing like Backes or Lucic then you're "easy to play against". Which is likely not true. Obviously its harder to play against guys like that, but it's probably no walk in the park trying to body up Franzen for 60 minutes. No matter how "physical" he is (or isn't), he's still 225 lbs. of forward that you've got to try and contain for an entire game. So in short, I agree lol.

It's the most, wonderful time...of the year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Piper is WAY better than that accursed Blackhawks propagandist Joey the Junior Reporter. Junior indeed. Piper 4 Life!

Mike Babcock, against all odds, heroically clawed and scraped Stephen Weiss' career back from the brink of oblivion through his genius and sheer force of will; despite Weiss' no-talent ass, whining and lolly gagging the entire time.

I have no idea what you're getting at. None at all.

Don't worry guys, Babs has a PhD from McGill in sports psychology. He's got this.

I agree. We're in the same ballpark. I didn't take exception to your use of "preference". I bolded it so that you'd know what I was responding to in my second comment. No problem with you preferring things. Zetterberg's production last season wasn't going to last, regardless of his pace. But you're right, it's probably a stretch for me to say that his production falls through the floor with Abby. Having said that, it's not unreasonable to think that he (and Datsyuk) would see an increase in production should they play alongside a winger who can pass and shoot better than Helm, Abby (or Bert before them). Again, I don't know that Stafford is the answer and don't want to make it about him in particular. I was just pointing out that if you want an "Abby with hands" go get one. They exist, and are available. Finally, I don't have a problem with teams trying things. I have a problem with not having any other options, and "trying" weird s*** becomes your only hope. Bowman "tried Fedorov on defense" when he had one of the greatest teams ever assembled. Julien "tried" Chara in front of the net while coaching one of the best teams in the league and having a ready replacement on the powerplay point in Torey Krug. We're "trying" Helm on the first line wing because we've got too many centers and not enough wingers, and our GM isn't willing to part ways with one to get the other. Think about it, each year Z and D start out together and the last four guys to play on the other wing were Cleary, Bert, Abby, and now Helm. We've needed a real winger for years. Babs' isn't doing it because he's got too many options, he's doing it because he doesn't have enough.

Your exact words were..."but I suppose you would prefer 5 Semin's". It's a little bit like if I tried to summarize your position on the team by saying "I suppose you would prefer 5 Abdelkaders". It would make me dumb, reductionist, and inaccurate. You're better than that. I hope.

1. Zetterberg's on pace to have a good season every year (almost). Who cares? Last year Alexander Steen was on pace to outscore Ovechkin for about 20 games. On pace really doesn't mean s***. 2. Prefer whatever you want. I'd prefer to actually have a top line winger (and not a third line center) on the top line. Also, as I've said a couple times already: Sure putting Helm on the first line "is worth a try". But this is a professional hockey team, running a business. If they don't have a better strategy for success than "it's worth a try", we're in trouble. 3. If Stafford is a rental he can't block anybody long term. Short term he wouldn't block anybody on the current roster because you'd have to trade to get him. One in, one out. Also, you could just waive any of Andersson, Glendening, or Cleary as well. Nothing about acquiring one guy would block those two. However, my point was mostly that he's been available for as long as we've been trying this stupid "bottom six grinder" to top line winger experiment. 4. Lets not go anointing Nestrasil some kind of up and comer just yet. He's (so far) yet to show he can even play consistently in the AHL, let alone the NHL . He had a good camp which is good. But if you're reluctant to take on a proven NHL player like Stafford because you aren't sure how that affects a guy like Nestrasil, then you've got some pretty funny priorities. Look, all I'm saying is that if you need a top line winger...go get a top line winger (or promote one). Abby and Helm are bottom six players. No amount of line adjusting changes their skill set. If you want a top line winger who's biggish, physically tough, and can score ok...go get a guy like Stafford. If you want a guy who's fast, defensively responsible, and can score a little...go get Vrbata. If you want bottom six grinders who are defensively responsible and chip in middling offense...go get Abby or Helm. The organization is trying to turn them into something they aren't, and it's detrimental to the team.

I thought parity was supposed to mean that different teams wouldn't be prohibited from winning based on their inability to spend as much money as other teams. I don't think anyone ever said, or believed, that parity meant all teams would have an equal chance of winning. Of course they wouldn't. Drafting, development, coaching, etc. are different for all organizations around the league. Parity was just supposed to make sure there were no New York Yankees in hockey (e.g. a team with marginal drafting, development, coaching, etc. but EXCELLENT player acquisition).

I was talking about Tatar. Do you really think keeping him out of the lineup for the first part of last season was a strategy to get him going?

I agree. And as I've already stated, I know the roster will change. I'm just not going to be excited about our roster until it looks something like that (although, probably not with Weiss on the wing lol). Getting rid of the garbage will go a long way toward making this team something credible again. Holland (and Babs) ability to keep those guys out of the lineup as much as possible is going to be a story I follow throughout this season.

Do you really think it was some sort of strategy to make him hungrier to take a spot? Seems like it was just the last vestiges of Babs' "tie goes to the vet" philosophy.

I know it was. You clearly thought, based on things I've said over the years, that I wanted a skilled, goal scoring, forward to play BOTH spots on defense. I can see why you'd think that based on the fact that I like Alexander Semin. Totally legitimate. You're obviously not being obtuse. Not at all.

I completely agree. I wasn't suggesting he doesn't have serious issues. I was just suggesting that in a system that allowed him to skate with the puck would ease some of the pressure coming on the forecheck (which I agree is his biggest weakness). It seems like in Babs' system they don't want the defensemen skating the puck up the ice. Watch us play and anytime the defense gains possession of the puck he stops, allows the forwards to regroup, and then they move the puck up the ice as a five man unit. I don't have a problem with this, but it does force the defensemen to make stationary passes, which in turn leaves them vulnerable to a strong forecheck. Obviously Kindl isn't good at this, so he struggles. He'll never be great, but I do think he'd be better in a system that allowed him to skate and make plays up the ice rather than wait and be exposed to the forecheck.

That's exactly right, I'd prefer 5 Semins. Way to have an adult dialogue about it.

I mean, I don't want to be overly pessimistic. I know that the lineups will change and the roster will look a lot different in a couple of months. I just long for the days when we could go into a season without obvious holes and/or huge question marks. In general I'm happy with the integration of Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and (eventually) Quellet. I just still don't think it's enough. As long as we've got fourth line talent on the other three, I'm going to be hopeful...yet not satisfied.

I think he'd be fine on a team that let him be offensive all the way. He can skate and shoot. He's just no good in Babs' system because Babs' doesn't want offense out of his defense...he wants a very particular type of offense (the kind Kronwall, Lids, and Rafalski provided). That's why Kindl struggles, and that's why Smith often struggles. If he played a wide open, run and gun, style of hockey I'd take Kindl. Someone like Tampa or Carolina would treat him well.

Lol.

Honestly, the part that irritates me isn't that they're playing. They've all got some value (if used correctly). What gets my goat is the the organization has everyone around here so hoodwinked that they actually buy it when Abby gets put on the top line and we hear "Dats wants Abby to pull the piano". Or "Helms speed will be killer on the forecheck". All us monkeys nod our heads in agreement and then wonder why Dats and Z's production falls to the floor. Want a guy who can "pull the piano" AND produce in top six? The Sabres have been trying to trade Drew Stafford for two years. He's not a superstar but he's WAY better than Abdelkader. Want a guy who can use speed on the forecheck and produce in the top six? You've got at least two of them toiling away on your third line (Tatar and Jurco). Or you could have signed someone like Radim Vrbata (a possession monster) who consistently produces offense while being defensively responsible. Nope, Helm and Abby. That's the way to the promised land. Ugh.

I'm not fine with any professional hockey team that realistically plans to use all of Abdelkader, Helm, Miller, Glendening, and Andersson. Nevermind Nestrasil, he'll be gone in a week or two. Three...maaaaaaybe four of those guys could play on my team. But not all of them. We've got mediocre talent eating up a lot of roster spots and minutes. Until we don't, this team will stay mediocre. "But...but...but...Kip, Mike Babcock says Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader are too good to be on the fourth line". So what? Kris Draper won the Selke, scored more than either of them, and played on the fourth line for most of his career. Ice a real roster or lose games. It's pretty simple.