kipwinger

40 of his points helped Nashville, not us. I'd agree they Legwand "could have helped", but that's not what you said. You said we had to replace his 50 pts. Which we don't. We never counted on, or got 50 pts. from David Legwand. So we wouldn't have to replace them. But, as I said, his 50 pts. "could have helped" had we re-signed him. That's sort of a platitude though. Edit: And it should be noted that if we're talking about replacing Legwand's 50 point potential, then you can rest assured we already have as Stephen Weiss will be back and he's got 50 point potential too.

As I understand it, the state issues bond money which the DDA (and the Illitchs) pays back. The DDA wouldn't have "school money" as their money is specifically earmarked for development projects. But, theoretically, state bond money could go to schools. But I don't see (nor have I ever heard) that the bond money used to fund this project was DEFINITELY going to schools (or anything else) and then was suddenly rerouted to the arena project. Like I said, seems like opponents of the projects are saying "if we weren't building an arena the money COULD go to schools", which may be theoretically true but doesn't withstand scrutiny.

Maybe we'd be better, maybe we wouldn't. But it's not like we were good with Alfredsson, so why not try something different? Sometimes it's all about the team dynamic. Who ever believed Columbus would be a better offensive (and defensive team) without Nash, Carter, Gaborik, or Horton (injured)? On paper it seems like it's crazy, but the team might actually be better in the long run. Also, you're fudging the numbers to make a point. Legwand played 21 games for us and contributed 11 pts. I get that he was a 50 pt. guy on the season, and so technically we'd have to "replace him". But you make it seem like we're losing a guy who contributed 50 pts. to our team, which he didn't. If anything, you'd have to replace his defense and 11 pts., as anything more than that rested on future potential that was lost the minute they decided not to re-sign him.

Yeah not a lot of info there. I don't see how the money "was going to schools" when it is already coming from the DDA. Unless they mean that the state bond money would have otherwise "gone to schools", but I'm not sure that's fair either. A more accurate statement would be, "opponents would rather the bond money go to schools". They make it sounds like money was going to go to schools, and then all of a sudden the state took it away and used it for the arena instead. I'm not sure that's supported by any evidence, and seems a lot like political posturing to me.

This project is getting criticism because like with almost everything else in the world, reactionary dips***s got all bent out of shape about this before they knew all the facts. People hear "tax dollars" and assume their personal income tax is going to go up, or some retiree's pension will get cut, to pay for this or something. Then, because they're already outraged, they can't just stop and admit they were wrong when they hear that the "tax dollars" used to pay for this project have already been collected, and were specifically designated for projects exactly like this one through the Downtown Development Authority. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130725/NEWS/130729909/detroit-taxpayers-to-fund-60-percent-of-red-wings-arena-plan-shows

OR...trade Kindl, and don't sign Alfie and give those spots to kids with dynamic skill sets. I know I'm probably the only one, but I think with Dats, Z, Weiss, and Helm returning, plus the growth of the kids, we probably don't need Alfie's 50 pts. But what we definitely need is to be harder to play against. And one of the best ways to do that, IMO, is to put Jurco, Mantha, Sproul, and possibly Marchenko in the lineup full time. Will they make mistakes? Sure. But so will 42 year old dudes who can't keep up. At least these guys will be hard for other teams to deal with.

We've already got one of those. Any more and I'd have a heart attack every night watching them try to protect the puck.

This could be total bulls***, but I remember at the time that O'Reilly was looking for the same money as Duchene was going to get (3.5 mil) and Colorado didn't want to give that to him so he wasn't signing. Hard to blame him if that was the case considering he was probably the better all around player after their first 3 years, but again, that could all be b.s.

To me it's more a matter of Colorado mishandling the situation so badly that they were put in this position in the first place. This is exactly what happens if you try and lowball good young talent. As a 21 year old he was putting up 50+ pts. and was one of the better defensive forwards in the league and his team wanted to hold his feet over the fire. There had to be a better way to satisfy him AND retain his services without completely alienating the kid. Sadly, Colorado management didn't seem up to the task.

I thought his nickname was "Big Daddy Cool", or was it the "1-2-3 Kid"? I can never keep his nicknames straight.

Wasn't he always billed as being from Detroit? (I posed that as a question even though I know this to be definitely true).

I don't really know much about it. Is it conceptually similar to Detroit's proposed arena?

I don't give a damn if none of it goes up and all they do is clear all those blocks of the garbage and dilapidated s*** that's currently there and pave over the whole mess. Even that is an improvement over the current state of affairs. Nobody wants to locate their office building, company headquarters, shop, etc. next to a field full of garbage. Lots of people want to locate their businesses next to something that looks nice. Even if it doesn't come fully to fruition (and I have no idea whether it will or won't), it's still good for an undeveloped area to become developed. Like I said, the alternative is to leave it like it is now? That's not good for anyone.

What are we looking at here?

I was just looking at this project on a map. It's not a stretch to say they're literally rebuilding an entire portion of the city. The footprint on it is absolutely massive. Anybody who thinks this is just another arena is nuts.

I love the LED dome up top. That will look REALLY cool on game night.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Colorado showing the kind of class that's made them a first rate organization over the years.

I live and work in D.C. now, and my office is directly adjacent to the Verizon Center where the Caps play. It was designed like this proposed new Detroit arena in that it has all sorts of other things going on besides whatever is happening at the arena (movie theater, restaurants, shops, housing, office space, etc.). It was put in the Chinatown neighborhood of DC in order to anchor that area and begin revitalizing it and has really been a positive agent in transforming that area of the city. I don't know how this new arena will shake out in Detroit, or whether or not it will revitalize anything. I don't have that kind of expertise. But I do see an example of how it CAN work, ever single day when I go to work. And that makes me hopeful.

That's legit, but nobody is remembering how Quenneville nearly did the exact same thing to us with those Blues teams in the late 90's that were significantly less talented than our Cup teams. And he was coaching against Bowman. One of the reasons that I think Quenneville is a great coach? Of the 15 times he's made the playoffs he's won the Cup twice and lost to the eventual Cup winner 7 times including three times to the Bowman Wings (widely considered some of the greatest teams EVER to play hockey) of the late 90's and early 2000's. The best teams Babs has lost to? Quenneville's Hawks a year ago.

He did as well in Calgary as Babs did in Anaheim. They both made it to the finals and lost.

I think there are several better coaches than Babs, including Quenneville. There are also several coaches who are "as good" as Babs. It wasn't unanimous that he was "the best" until he won the Olympic gold, which is more a function of the Canadian media collectively embracing him than anything else. Also, it's not like Sutter or Quenneville (or Julien, Tippett, or Hitchcock) would have lost to Latvia had they been picked in his stead. He's a top five coach. But the proof is in the pudding. And despite some VERY good teams, his ring fingers are a little light.

Babcock is ONE OF the best coaches. I agree. We just happen to disagree on him being THE BEST coach, which is what you said initially. And it's not like he came on to a bad team either. Any argument made in his favor is equally valid for Sutter or Quenneville who, nevertheless, have more Cups.

I'm suggesting it's better to let him walk than fire him. And I believe if we miss the playoffs or get bounced early (and badly) then one or the other is coming. So why not let him walk amicably? I don't think we'd be having this conversation if Holland didn't already have Blashill ready to go, but you've got to think that another disappointing season would lead all parties involved to the conclusion that it's time for a change. And it just so happens we've got a good alternative already in our organization. Far too much is made of how good other people's rosters are and how bad Babs' rosters have been. He had seven 100+ pt. teams. Yet, he coached the President's Trophy winner to a first round loss in 2005-2006, and he lost with a very good roster (Lids, Franzen, Dats, Z, Hossa, Rafalski) in 2009 as well. He's had good teams and less good teams, as have Quenneville and Sutter. Difference is, they've won more cups with their good rosters than he has.

Lol. You're so cute when you're contradictory. I'll get back to you about this silly debate once I'm done watching youtube videos of Sutter hoisting the Cup for the second time. Afterward I'll watch Quenneville do it. Be a doll and link me to the video of Babcock hoisting the Cup for the second time will you?

Did we hire Darryl Sutter while I wasn't paying attention? But I digress... Because I think none of the GM, coach, management, or ownership would prefer to fire someone when they can just let them walk without all the to-do. I agree, there aren't many repercussions, but why would you (if given the choice) fire someone if you don't have to?