kipwinger

No he hasn't. When commenting on his contract earlier this summer he said... "On Friday we'll begin negotiating a contract. It's tough to talk about it. Detroit's my priority. I'd say that it's 90% that I'll stay there, only if a fantastic offer came from another team, that Detroit didn't want to match. Everything depends on negotiations. I can't go below the price that a similar player in the league will have earned. But I like the team, and I'll settle there. It's all business, though, and the team could always replace me." Doesn't sound like a guy that's dying to bolt to another team or the KHL.

And what would you tell everybody when Green walks at the end of this season to play with a contender? "Sorry folks, now we lost a top flight young forward AND couldn't keep Green".

You're right about this, but there's a limit. An ELC (including bonuses) can only amount to 1.3 million dollars. Which is why Dekeyser's cap hit was less than a million but his total earnings were 1.3 million. If you'll remember, earlier in the summer there was some discussion about how much cap space the Wings would have to sign FAs (so funny in hindsight) as a result of bonuses to Alfie and Dekeyser that carried over. But it is the best team ever. Since July 1st (actually the last 5 July firsts), we've repeatedly been inundated with the same message. "Sometimes the best moves are those you don't make". Totally true. Gotcha Red Wings. But doesn't that also mean then that "sometimes the worst moves are the ones you DO make"? Alas, this too is a reality. f*** you Ken Holland.

Is that a direct quote or are you paraphrasing? Because if someone had the balls to write that in an email to you then they should be shot (or promoted to GM since they clearly have more balls than Holland).

Big whoop. Future hall of famers come back to the Red Wings all the time. Anybody remember a little free agent by the name of Mike Modano? Detroit signing him and the Cavs signing Lebron are the EXACT same thing. Nothing at all different about those two scenarios. Kenny gets it done baby.

I haven't heard definitively. Malik says "yes". But he's an idiot so I'm not sure.

I'll be astonished if Holland doesn't make this worse by trading either Tatar or Jurco for a defenseman that isn't worth it. That's really the only way this could get worse, and I'll bef****** amazed if he doesn't make it worse. Prepare yourselves Detroit, it's DEFINITELY going to get worse. We'll lose good talent for a defenseman on an expiring contract. The loss of that talent, paired with injury, age, and mediocrity will mean we either miss the playoffs or lose early. And then that defenseman will walk because we're not a good team. Bold prediction.

Isn't there some sort of non-verbal commitment between the GM and the fans, owners, and other players on the roster that every year an attempt will be made to improve the on-ice product? I mean, life if full of little non-verbal commitments between parties. What makes this commitment so much more important? Doesn't Ken feel honor bound to Zetterberg, Franzen, or Kronwall for taking discounts to give him all this cap space he keeps squandering? Isn't there some commitment to give Babcock some semblance of a competitive roster? Hell, I'd like to think he (as part of his contract signing process) gave his word to the Illitchs that, at the very least, he'd make a half hearted attempt to win championships.

So here's an awful thought. At the end of the regular season I was seriously hoping that ALL of Alfie, Cleary, Quincey, Bert, Sammy, Tootoo would be gone. But IF I had to have one back it would have been Alfie (I didn't want it, but if forced to pick, he'd have been the guy). But now, after clusterf*** 2014, I'm PRAYING he decides to retire so that at least one of our young, big, hard to play against forwards makes the team. If Alfie comes back I'm going to puke. It means Jurco and Mantha don't play. It means we don't acquire a defenseman. It means we're the EXACT same team as last year (except a year older). It means, in short, that we suck. So please, enjoy your retirement Alfie, you've earned it.

The same Brenden Morrow that had 19 goals and 39 pts. last year?

"There's nothing in the streets Looks any different to me And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye And the parting on the left Are now parting on the right And the beards have all grown longer overnight I'll tip my hat to the new constitution Take a bow for the new revolution Smile and grin at the change all around Pick up my guitar and play Just like yesterday Then I'll get on my knees and pray We don't get fooled again Don't get fooled again No, no!"

I literally spent the last two days arguing with guys who think we should trade Tatar and that "Holland's done everything he can" to make this team better but "you can't make people sign here". On the one hand I'm bummed that our already bad team didn't get any better. On the other hand I'm delighted to have some evidence to point at the next time I say KH is ******* up.

Good thing we didn't overpay for any players in free agency eh boys

Don't be so angry guys. KH tried his best and fate determined this was the best he could do. #commitedtotheyouthmovement

Soooo you'd trade Tatar or Jurco for Green?

So you're cool with doing the exact same thing to get Mike Green, except that I'll be Tatar or Jurco going the other way? Because that's why this all came up. To discuss the inherent risks associated with trading too much for guys on expiring contracts. So based on your analysis of the last trade we made for a guy on an expiring contract (Legwand) you'd say it's worth it or no?

...without giving up too much for him. Which was the central point of the last two pages worth of discussion.

It doesn't have to be "the worst move in history" to be a bad move. Also, given how recently this happened and how bad it already turned out (having a center and a 2nd might have been nice this offseason), I can't believe I'm having to defend against going it again (with Tatar instead of Jarnkrok) for Green. The point was to suggest that trading good talent for expiring contracts is risky. I'd never have said another word about it if that very obvious sentiment was immediately set upon by people hell bent on trying to make it look like that trade was anything other than a bad move by Holland. I'm not lamenting the loss of Jarnkrok. I'm hope Holland isn't dumb enough to do it again with someone better. So can you stop being condescending now?

Both the Red Wing organization, and Jarnkrok himself acknowledged the inaccuracy of any "going back to Europe" claims. You can put that one to bed. Secondly, guys like Teemu Pulkkinen and Mattias Backman are ready to play now and aren't going to make the team this year either. It doesn't mean they'll never get the opportunity to try. Why is it always either/or with everyone around here?

Maybe he wouldn't have succeeded. I don't know. But to pretend like he'd have never gotten the opportunity if he hadn't been traded is complete b.s. We gave a year and a half to Emmerton. I think Jarnkrok would have managed at least a look.

He was an AHL rookie, and there is absolutely no evidence that "he wanted to play now". That's just something people keep saying. He's far from the first Red Wings player to be expected to play a couple years in the AHL despite being older and having played professionally before. Also, you're just making things up. He doesn't have "defensive inefficiencies". He was lauded for his "Zetterberg-like" commitment to two-way play. I'm so tired of people using post-hoc justifications to try and make that trade look like it wasn't a total disaster. He wasn't going back to Europe. He wasn't demanding immediate playing time. He would surely have got a chance to be better than Andersson, Sheahan, Glendening, and/or Helm. And he DEFINITELY isn't bad defensively. It was s*** trade. That's all.

Jarnkrok was never going to play for the Wings? We had so few centers in our prospect pool that we literally just drafted 5 of them and signed another from Europe. AND, until we drafted Larkin, not a single center prospect in our organization projected as having top six upside. Not one. So yeah, he'd probably have played a game or two.

Not excited about the possibility of re-signing Cleary and Alfie? If not, here's something that will blow your doors off...if a bunch of other, less deserving guys, get injured you MIGHT see Sproul, Quellet, or Marchenko play some games this year...BOOM! *mind blown*

Thought this was funny. Over on another forum, I just heard one fan say that "the Caps can't trade Green, they need him to replace Orpik when he inevitably breaks down". Lol. If Mike Green being healthy is your team's back up plan you are in serious trouble.

True, but only if Green wants to stay. And as I said before, given how FA turned out that's not a gamble I'm willing to take. Say Tatar sucks, Green plays awesome, and Green leaves. What did we gain? Too many question marks for me to spend big assets on it. I don't mind Green, and I don't want to suggest that I don't think he'd help. He probably would. But I'm not giving up a guy that just had the year Tatar had for a guy who can't stay healthy, is very "unBabcock" in his style, and can leave in less than a year regardless of anything else. Especially when you consider his addition (if it's only short team) isn't likely to be the thing that puts us over the top.