kipwinger

Changed what dynamic against Vancouver?

I actually think Thornton would be good with Franzen. He's made worse wingers look WAY better. But I still don't like the idea of acquiring him.

I appreciate your certainty lol.

Special how? I get that you like enforcers, and I'm certainly not going to try and talk you out of it, but you're starting to inflate Thornton's qualities into something mythic. Even as far as enforcers go he's not all that great.

If life has taught me anything its this...A) an increase in the quantity supplied always drives down price, and B) snakes make horrible birthday presents.

Haha what do they know? They just sell beer. Did Michael Jackson make "Thriller" by waiting around? Did Steve overtake Johannes as the greatest Gutenberg while taking it easy? Did Hulk Hogan pick up and slam a GIANT by resting on his laurels? Didn't think so.

Another high-end(ish) center on the market along with Spezza, Kesler, Stastny, and (maybe) Thornton. Keep driving those prices down boys, and hopefully they'll get low enough for Kenny to consider.

I don't think this is unreasonable. If you're not competing and you're not trying to become competitive I'm not sure exactly what you ARE doing. Waiting around? If life has taught me anything it's this...A) Sun-dried tomatoes are better than regular tomatoes, and B) fate is not kind to those who wait around for things to happen to them. You make your own breaks.

I like a good redemption story.

I wish. Seriously, I'd really love for Bert to get a Cup. I've got nothing but sympathy for the guy. I'd rather he win one than Alfie.

Jesus what a nightmare. I really hate dwelling on that trade because I realize we were over a barrel (sort of). But every time I see it written down on this site I want to puke. That package would go a long way toward landing Ryan Kesler right now, AND he'd be under contract. Kudos to Poile on the MASSIVE trade rape.

And thus ends my long time dream of cheering wildly as Todd Bertuzzi is handed the Stanley Cup first after it is presented to Zetterberg (and cheering all the more wildly knowing that the rest of the hockey world is HATING what they're seeing).

You're on a roll tonight buddy! Keep everyone on an even keel. Lord knows we need it. And here's hoping you're rewarded for your faith.

I mean, I don't want to sound overly pessimistic because those are all good centers. But I was already excited at the thought of Dats, Weiss, Sheahan, Helm. But it doesn't make a bit of difference if their wingers have hammer hands (Abby) or weight 175 lbs. (Tatar, Nyquist) or are Franzen. We've already got good centers. I want wingers with size. I will admit that Joe would probably make Franzen a superstar overnight. And he'd be good for Mantha's development too. Really good. Mantha would score a zillion goals with Joe passing to him.

So, if we trade for Thornton does that mean Weiss goes to the wing? And if so, does that mean one of Franzen or Nyquist becomes the top line winger? And how does re-signing Alfie influence this? Is there actually a plan or are we just grasping at straws here?

Of course he'd be looking at centers. Our wingers are undersized and/or terrible and he's looking at centers. We've only got about 25 of them on the roster right now. Jesus.

O'Reilly + Kesler + Niskanen = Cup. It's fun to dream.

Actually logic is my second language. Klingon is my first language. The rest of the post is much appreciated though.

I'm sure that's why he had it on his car. But the fact that he showed up to meet another team and didn't remove it seems to suggest his sympathies hadn't changed. Probably 90% of the people on here would do the same. If I had my pick of every team in the NHL I'd probably meet with the Blackhawks and Maple Leafs wearing my Maltby sweater lol. That kid was never going any place else. Thank god Dekeyser is a Detroiter, lord knows how bad our defense would be without him haha.

This is so awesome. I like that he didn't even take it off, so sure was he about his final destination.

Because he punches guys. The argument goes something like this: We should get Shawn Thornton because he's a fighter and we need that on our team. We need it on our team because we don't have it on our team currently. We don't currently have it on our team because we don't currently have Shawn Thornton. Hopefully that helps.

As I did with someone else earlier, I numbered the parts of your message that I'm going to respond to because you contained a lot of information, some of which I agree with. 1. What's he going to teach the kids that Kronwall can't? Is he that much wiser or more accomplished than Kronner? 2. Signing old players and asking them to play big roles (top four d-man in Boyle's case) only increases the likelihood that injuries will continue to be a problem. I see no reason to think that injuries to our key players (who are all old) are going to decline going forward. 3. Singing Boyle to play alongside Kronwall, Dekeyser, Smith, and Ericsson ensures that only one of the three players you mentioned (nevermind Backman or Jensen) will see significant playing time until at least the end of Boyle's two year contract (which he's seeking). Therefore, for at least the next two years the other two guys are riding the pine as the 7th d-man or playing in GR. I'd prefer they get NHL experience if they're going to factor so heavily into our future plans. 4. If all we're getting is leadership we don't really need, and a bump in our powerplay (hopefully), why not sign Stephane Robidas for half that and use the savings to pursue a forward who isn't small and/or old and/or injured constantly? Overall, I don't think you're hugely off base with your logic or anything. I think we just disagree on the relative value of Boyle given where he's at in his career as well as where we're at in our rebuild. Edit: Just so you know, the comment about Stephane Robidas is tongue in cheek. I don't really want him. I'm just saying he'd give you everything Boyle does, and more cheaply.

Agreed. We don't know. Although I'm certainly not banking on anything else. Signing old washed up vets is Holland's MO. Trading for impact players like Kesler and Edler isn't. If he signs Boyle and then goes on to do grab a couple first rate players in their prime, I won't have anything to complain about. However, history has shown Holland signs guys like Boyle in lieu of making impact moves, not in addition to making impact moves. If he signs Boyle, I sure hope this will be the exception.

Exactly, which is why I'm advocating we either A) acquire multiple impact players, or B) have faith that our kids will be impact players and then give them roster spots and ice time to prove it. There's no combination of Boyle + Kids that makes us good enough to compete for a Cup before he retires at the end of whatever contract he signs this year. And by signing him and nobody better, you've already conceded that you're not winning anything next year. So even in the best case scenario you've only got a one year window of opportunity for him to be a "piece of the puzzle". At which point he'll be 39 years old and will have declined further than he already has. All for about 5 million a year.

Need for what? To compete for a cup, or to barely make the playoffs for two of years before being crushed in the playoffs and then retiring? Seriously, is the goal to get back to Cup contention. Because if so, Boyle's not going to help us. He couldn't help the Sharks and they're MILES better than we are. But if the goal is to make the playoffs, yet not have a realistic chance of winning, then sure, Boyle will help. All Boyle does is help the Wings stay as mediocre as they are, or marginally improve their averageness. I'm sick of watching the Wings tread water. It's my preference that we do what it takes to be a Cup contender, or let the kids play.