kipwinger

Yeah pissed me off too. But why wouldn't you keep rolling out the same core lineup which hasn't been able to cut it for five years now? Holland needs to do something to address the core, not just nibble away at the periphery. Our core lineup can't win by itself anymore. Dats and Z can't power this team to a cup alone They need help. Look at New York, does anybody think they'd be where they're at if St. Louis and Richards were their two best players? They're winning because they've got loads of high quality players in their primes...Nash, Stepan, Brassard, Puliot, Girardi, Staal AND veterans like St. Louis, Richards, Lundqvist AND some first rate young guys like Kreider, Hagelin, McDonagh. We don't have a single forward between the ages of 25 and 32 who's even as good as Benoit Puliot, and he's nothing special. And we've got exactly one defenseman (Ericsson) who's both in his prime and actually worth a damn. If Holland doesn't get do something soon, we won't be good for another 3-5 years when the kids fully mature, and by that time Dats, Z, Kronwall, Franzen and maybe Howard and Ericsson will be all washed up or on the decline.

Dear god I hope Alfie hangs them up. I just thought about how pissed I'd be if Holland didn't spend any of that money in the offseason and then was immediately MORE pissed when I realized they will spend it...on a 42 year old who's fading fast. Ugh.

Well you've already suggested that Gary Bettman arbitrarily manipulated a loophole in the rules so that Dan Carcillo could play in the finals. My question is, "to what end"? Because it would help NY? Because it would help LA? Because the fan just love the guy? As a personal favor to Carcillo?

Well it's an internet forum, if I'm wrong, so what? But I don't think I'll be wrong. Marchenko is the most NHL ready out of him, Sproul, and Ouellet. Ericsson is definitely NOT getting displaced by Smith. And we will more than likely sign a top four guy who's at least better than Smith. The only thing that might be off about my prediction is that Kindl might start the season on the third pair until Babs scratches him, at which time Marchenko takes over full time...so it's a technicality.

Smith's not in a "learn from the master" situation, and he's definitely not "already a top pair" defenseman. He's was in a "Ericsson got hurt and Dekeyser can't come up to the top pair or we'd only have one good pair" situation. Now he's in a "Now that Ericsson's Healthy I'm heading back to the Third Pair" situation. Unless you think Babcock is going to demote Ericsson (something he hasn't done even once in about 3 years now), or that somehow Smith played his way onto/Ericsson played his way off of the top pair. We'll acquire a d-man in the offseason and our pairs will look like this...count on it: Kron-Ericsson Player X - Dekeyser Smith-Marchenko Lashoff I'll agree with the Smith over Almqvist part though.

It wasn't Smith, Nyquist, and Mantha. That offer happened before the draft and before Nyquist's big season. It was Smith, Nyquist (prospect), and the 1st that became Mantha. Still an overpayment given how that turned out for us, but Holland hasn't completely lost his mind lol.

I hope not. If it is, it's a bad one. Aren't threats usually more effective if the person you're trying to threaten actually gives a damn?

Again, Corsi stats don't even come close to telling the whole story about a player. As already stated, Mike Green has a better Corsi than Ryan Suter and David Booth has a better Corsi than John Tavares. It's completely skewed by zone starts. Smith starts in the offensive zone way more than a guy like Dekesyer, so he naturally gets more shots at the net. The miracle is not that Smith has a better Corsi, but rather that Dekeyser had more points than Smith despite having to go 200 feet to get a point. I'd certainly agree that anybody is more likely to see their offensive zone stats increase with Smith as a partner, he's an offensive defenseman, that's what he's supposed to do. Surely he should generate more shots than than Ericsson. The problem is not that he generates shots, it's that every pair he's on...including the one with Kronwall... is noticeably worse defensively. Last I checked you still need to play defense in this league. Everybody's ready to pat Smith on the head for playing better when paired with Kronwall, but nobody even mentions how much better Quincey looked when NOT paired with Smith during the second half of the season. Losing Smith as a partner made Quincey better defensively. Gaining Smith as a partner made Kronwall better offensively and worse defensively. Sure you get more offense zone time (not points since Smith doesn't score much), but your defense suffers with him. Finally, you know who else did crappy with crappy partners and crappy minutes and did well with good partners and quality minutes? Ian White. But that doesn't mean he's worth a damn. And I never, ever, want him on my top pair.

Well I can agree with almost everything you've said here. And with that I'm going to turn the conversation back to Almquist because I've derailed the thread with Smith talk and want to be responsible. Adam Almquist is not Torey Krug. I think that those advocating for him see what Krug has done in Boston, and see Almquist's point totals in the AHL, and think "hey, that looks familiar". Leave aside the fact that Krug's a better skater. But even then there's a problem. Krug scores a lot for Boston because A) he gets extremely sheltered minutes, pp time, and all the offensive zone starts you'd ever want, and B) His defensive shortcomings are excusable on a team full of first rate defensive forwards and rear guards. He's a liability, but he's the only one. Our team is terrible defensively, and AA won't help because suck as they might, both Kindl and Lashoff are better than AA defensively. Like I said, lets switch gears back to the Almquist discussion. I'm not trying to disregard what you're saying, and some of your points are certainly valid. But it's probably annoying for anyone who wants to come here and talk about AA when they seem me ranking about Smith and his proponents again and again. But I genuinely do appreciate your level of civility. You could have called me names lol.

My "hatred for Smith" has less to do with his game and more to do with how his apologists seem incapable of even acknowledging simple facts which may suggest he's less the "future top pair" defenseman than he may seem. Has he improved? Sure. He had a better than average half year on the top pair with Kronwall. But lots of guys have had good half years (Kindl, Abdelkader) and nobody bangs the drum for their promotion into exceedingly important positions (top pair, top six). If Abby or Kindl even sniff the top pair or top six people get pissed, but those same people are ready to anoint Smith based on a stretch of play which has certainly been atypical of his career thus far. He's a offensive d-man who doesn't score much, a puck mover who turns the puck over at an exceptionally high rate, and a "tough guy" who doesn't hit. I don't expect him to be Lidstrom...or even a cut rate Lidstrom. But I do expect him to improve in those areas for a full season before I'm sold on his "improvement". And it's not like I'm unwilling. I didn't like Ericsson at first either, thought he was a bum. I was pissed about his previous contract. But then, he strung together a strong campaign (or two or three) and I had to eat crow and sing a different tune. When/If Smith does similar, I'll be glad to do the same thing.

I was just thinking that was a lot. Given that Edler is signed at 5 million for 5 more years, I think I'd rather just sign Niskanen for a similar contract and keep the assets (or use them for another trade). I mean, I like Edler and all, but he's not THAT good. Oh Christ, rumor has it Marleau is being shopped. He'll be this year's Hull...er...Robitaille...er...Modano...er...Alfredsson. Ugh.

Which is nearly half his point total for the entire year. Even a blind dog gets a bone now and again. Putting Carcillo in your lineup is line putting Tootoo in your lineup. And I highly doubt anyone would insinuate that Gary Bettman was exploiting the rules in an unfair way if he did it to get Tootoo back in our lineup. I think the general response would be "meh...great...now can we hurry up and scratch him so that Glendening and come and play some defense or something?"

I assume you're suggesting he did this all in an effort to make NY lose, considering they're a better team without Carcillo out there being a liability. Damn you Bettman, trying to stack the Rangers with garbage players by exploiting loopholes!

I'm clueless now? Well at least you don't throw a fit and call people names when they don't agree with you. And who could possibly argue with a stat that ranks David Booth above John Tavares and Mike Green above Ryan Suter. Rock solid.

Naw...Smith just needed to be gifted top pair minutes rather than having to earn them. Miller would probably look a lot better on Datsyuk's wing too, but it doesn't mean he earned it or that he belongs there.

Isn't Vancouver also asking an insane amount for Edler despite him coming off one of his worst seasons?

There was actually just a new interview with Commie posted today. Check the news feed.

Doesn't Edler shoot left?

Wasn't he drafted by New York where he was an AHL stud, then traded to Carolina where he put up six points in 38 games, not re-signed when his contract expired, and ultimately put out to pasture in Russia? Seems a little like Linus Omark to me.

I'm pretty sure they let him go because he was terrible and played his way off the team.

It's the cap era, nobody gives a s*** about his actual salary. It's Mike Illitch's money, not ours. Cap hit is all that matters, not salary and you know that. Again, you're just using that figure to try and win an argument. As for the rest... David Clarkson got a 2.6 million dollar raise. Clowe, 1.2 million dollar raise. Bickell, 3.5 (coming off entry level contract) Perry, 3.3 (elite player and Hart trophy winner) Parise, 1.5 million dollar raise Letang, 3.7 million Phaneuf, .5 million These are the biggest overpayments you can think of off the top of you head and they're still not nearly as big as the 4.7 million dollar raise you're saying Niskanen will get. If you're so sure he's going to get so hugely overpaid, or at least more overpaid than your list here, I just want to know why? What's so much more extreme about this year than all those you mentioned here? Remember, the Parise/Suter UFA class was weak too and they don't get a 300% markup on their contracts.

Ryan Suter is one of the premier two way defensemen in the league and his cap hit is 7.5 million a year, not 12. You're just jooking stats to make a point. He's getting paid exactly what he deserves and so will Niskanen.

Suter was offered that much money because he's a franchise defenseman on every team except the one he was already on. He was offered that money because he's one of the three or four best defensemen in the league. If you think Suter and Niskanen are comparable I don't know what to tell you. Edit: Ok, you guys have got to be kidding. 7 million dollars? You think he's going to jump from 2.3 to 7 million dollars a year? First of all, who even has 7 million dollars to spend on a second pair defenseman? We've got more cap room than just about any competitive team and we don't have 7 million dollars to spend on a second pair defenseman. Secondly, NOBODY...ever...in the history of hockey has made that much money with Niskanen's track record. Never ever ever ever. Why are you all so sure he's going to be the one to set some kind of overpayment record? It may come as a surprise, but there have been weak free agents classes before. It's not like the top UFA in each previous weak year signed contract out of proportion with all reality.

Nobody suggested he'd be a number one. Kenny said we need a right shooting top four defenseman. He didn't say we needed a franchise defenseman to build around for the next 10-20 years. And as I mentioned earlier, I don't know where this idea that Niskanen is going to get "paid like a great player" comes from. Nothing indicates this aside from pure speculation. Give me one example of a puck moving d-man who hasn't scored 50 pts. but makes 6+ million dollars. The reason why you probably can't think of one is because it almost never happens. Bouwmeester is the only exception I can think of. And I'm not sure why people would think Niskanen would get paid like Bouwmeester when he's far more comparable to Wisniewski, Ehrhoff, Bieksa, Vlasic, Hamhuis, Girardi, Johnson, etc. and none of them make first pair money. Niskanen isn't McDonagh, Pietrangelo, Doughty, or Subban. They'll get paid like franchise d-man...he won't. High end he'll get paid 5.5 million a year, and he's worth that in today's market. I wish. Well, except for Callahan. I love his attitude and all, but I'm not interested in spending that kind of money on a guy whose best qualities are his intangibles.

Could you link me to that article? I seriously hadn't seen anyone talking that high. I agree, if that's the asking price I'd pass too but like I said, I hadn't seen anyone suggest he'd make over 6 mil. Based on his numbers and comparable signings in recent memory I figured he'd get 5.5 at the highest and probably a little less if he got the right term (e.g. Wisniewski, Erhoff, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Girardi, J. Johnson, etc. etc. etc.). Not that I don't believe you, but I can't imagine why anyone would think he's make over six million dollars considering there's absolutely no precedent for someone with his age, history of production, and developmental ceiling, getting paid that much.