kipwinger

Don't feed the troll.

Why?

For a long time, I've always regarded P.K. Subban as a class act. Often, I believe people confuse his swagger on the ice, for arrogance off the ice...something I've never seen out of him. He's a competitive guy, and a young guy, and that shows when he plays. But if you ever needed proof that he's got class, here's this quote about the racist tweets and insults hurled at him from Boston fans. Atta boy P.K.! "It's completely unfair for anybody to point the finger at the organization or the fan base," Subban said. "They have passionate fans here, a great fan base and since I've been in the league it's been awesome. I've come to Boston many times, my family has come here, and it's been great." Subban said Saturday that what people say on Twitter or social media is not a reflection of the league or the Bruins. He went on to say that it is unfortunate when the attention is taken away from the game being played on the ice. "You know what the funny thing is, is that we get stronger as a league, you see how people come together and it's great," Subban said. "And it's not just about me. The NHL has tons of players from different backgrounds, from different places around the world and that's what makes this league so special and that's what makes sports so special, it brings everybody together."

Your love of Hampus Melen is one of your more adorable traits.

Is it just me, or are half the dudes on that list not gritty at all? Eller? Setoguchi? Those dude are big, sure, but they're cream puffs.

If I recall correctly the buyout period ended two or three days before free agency last year. I don't know if it will be the same this year though.

Yeah you were pretty much dead on with all of those. Atta boy.

Ok perhaps "zero effect" was a misstatement. Zero effect on the success of the team. Of course it had an effect...Chris Illitch would have to sell a hell of a lot less pizzas had they all disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle a year ago.

Haha, well played.

I'm going to defend her. I grew up in rural Michigan. I'd like to say that Wings fans wouldn't do this, but sadly A LOT of them would. Don't think so? Spend about an hour in any dive bar in Osceola County Michigan.

Kindl and Lashoff got it pretty bad down the stretch. But I'm going to say it was the triumvirate of Bert, Sammy, and Cleary. Despite having almost ZERO effect on our team (good or bad), they still managed to get blamed for everything all the time. Go back and look at the GDTs. Never have three guys been blamed for so much after playing so little.

We need the personnel to match the philosophy. Holland wants a highly skilled team but doesn't want to pay to get the talent. Likewise, Babs wants a plucky, fast, and responsible defensive team but doesn't have the personnel. Barring any changes to the roster, a guy like Alain Vingeault would maximize this teams skillset. Conversely, Babcock would probably have won a Stanley Cup with Columbus' team.

Agreed. That's my point. Our team doesn't maximize offensive talent because we don't have the philosophy or system to do so. Load the team up with offensively talented players and they'll all factor into each other's production. It's no secret that Datsyuk's two best offensive years were when he had highly talented wingers to pass to. It's also no secret that Zetterberg's best offensive year was when he was the one "being passed to". If you're not willing to get those types of guys, or play those types of guys, then you're not going to optimize offensive potential, which is exactly the point I'm trying to make. Doesn't mean you can't win, just means you better win the New Jersey way.

That's really not true though. Samuelsson, Kopecky, and Quincey all had much higher totals with other teams. They all had their career years elsewhere. Our biggest FA offensive success story is Hossa who, again, had his sixth best offensive season with us. Now, you could argue that this is because we only ever sign role players and aging guys...but that would only further my point that our organizational philosophy is such that offensive production is not our primary concern. But as I stated before, it's not a knock on any player or our philosophy or system. It's just an acknowledgement that our current system does not revolve around high powered offense. I'm not really sure why I'm even having to argue this considering 1) nobody has come to Detroit in recent memory and had a career year, 2) we haven't had anything close to a league leader in any offensive category in quite a long time, and 3) in the last five years have ranked 14th, 2nd, 7th, 19th, and 16th respectively. The anomaly is the one year we did have a good offense not the three bad ones and one sorta good one. Edit: In in interest of fairness, Ian White had a career year with Detroit, eclipsing his previous personal best by six points, which is roughly the same as Samuelsson's improvement when he went to Vancouver. I stand corrected.

Right but you can't dismiss marginal the improvements made by Quincey (when he left), Filppula, Hudler, Kopecky, and Sammuelsson (when he left) as being in essence "too small to matter" but then use equally small improvements (or sustainments) made by Alfie, Hossa, or Bert as proof of the opposite. If one sample is too moderate a change to matter, then so is the other. I'd agree about the injured players and short-timers though, and to give credence to your position I'd say that had his role remained the same Legwand would likely have sustained the level of offense he'd had in Nashville as well. None of which was my point, however, because I was responding to a guy who said Holland hadn't made an impact move since Hossa. My point was to suggest that our system has not been conducive to large amounts of offense in quite a while. So one shouldn't be surprised if guys like Legwand, Alfie, Weiss (injured, I get it), Quincey, or anyone else don't have the "impact" that they might have on another team. Doesn't mean they're not quality players or high profile moves. It means that their numbers suffer as a result of team philosophy and system which works against big offense. It's also not a dig on the team, system, or philosophy either. It's an acknowledgement of those things' effect on offensive production. Edit: Hossa had his sixth best offense season in Detroit. So I'm not even going call that a sustainment. He's had better offensive production on 3 of the 4 other teams he played on, and the only one he didn't was his 12 games in Pittsburgh.

Alright man, you win. You've said it enough that it's finally sunk in. Niskanen sucks because you say so (over and over and over again).

Where's GMRwings at? I'd think he'd already be here to gloat about Price. Isn't that his boy?

It's a legit question. For years that's been the Red Wings way. I'd like to think it would matter about as much as when Hossa came in and made more than Hank or Pav, but who knows. I do know this though. If the Wings continue to deny that market/contract inflation pertains to them they'll continue to miss valuable free agents. And as they slip down the standings the free agents are even less likely to sign with us, and will require more money if they do. Vicious circle. I'd hope Kronwall is professional enough to understand that. Lidstrom certainly understood that in order to ice the best possible team he couldn't continue to remain the team's highest paid player into old age.

When you say "impact player" it appears what you really mean is that "they haven't added a STAR"" since Hossa. Weiss, Alfredsson, and Legwand were all bona fide top six forwards their entire careers, and based on Alfie's 49 pts and Legwand's 51 pts. this season they've still got plenty of impact. Weiss was hurt, oh well, no knock on his "not being an impact player". Even Quincey was a legit top four defenseman when we acquired him, coming off big minute high production seasons with two different teams. I love acquiring stars as much as the next guy. I'm the one pulling for a Ryan Kesler trade. But it's unfair to suggest that Holland doesn't bring in "impact players". He does. He just doesn't bring in stars. Mostly because there aren't many of them to go around. Instead of worrying yourself over the lack of star deals. I'd ask myself this. Why is it that every player that we acquire produces less when he gets here, and why is it that every player we lose produces more after they're gone? Now that's a question for the ages.

Agreed. Nobody is saying that he should get paid like Chara, Suter, or Weber. And he won't. He should get paid about 5.5 million. Which is a slight overpayment, but in today's market, with few other options, that's what a defeseman with his skill set will make. We either 1) can pay it, 2) stick with what we have, or 3) spend more money than the overpayment for Niskanen on a cheap alternative. Those are the options and two of them don't seem to be working too well for us. He'd be making about as much as Duncan Keith, who signed his 5.5 million dollar contract extension two months into the 2009 season. Up to that point, his previous career best was 44 pts. and 32 pts. Wisniewski signed a similar sized contract after putting up similar numbers and playing similar minutes. So did Erhoff. It's likely Niskanen doesn't become a Duncan Keith, Chicago got a steal by signing him long term and letting him develop. But he'll likely be as good as Wisniewski or Erhoff. And both of those guys are worth their contracts. Quality, big minute, puck moving d-men don't grow on trees.

I would LOVE to see PK take apart the might Boston Bruins for soooooo many reasons. Vive le bleu, blanc et rouge!

Correct. And that's no knock on either of those players, or on our organization. It's just that some guys who work on one team wouldn't work on another. Gaborik in Columbus for example. Good player, wrong team. Same with Krug. He needs a big team to be effective.

No thanks. A 5'9 defenseman can work on a team of giants and badasses and giant badasses. On our team he'd just get steamrolled on the forecheck and he'd have half as many assists because the guys he'd be passing to are 190 lbs. as opposed to 215-235 lbs, and get knocked off the puck more often. Sadly, Torey's not the guy for us. Good player though.

Hey I'm not saying throw the kid away for nothing, despite my constant irritation with him I've said over and over that he will get better. With that said, I think we could handle losing him (provided we signed Niskanen), and it would definitely take the sting out of it if we were getting Kesler in return. But...if you can get Kesler without giving him up, why not?

I real question is, how well would Todd McLellan like working for Jeff Blashill? Let's just combine the two threads right now.