kipwinger

I agree with most of what you're saying, but if you look back at my post you'll see I said Pittsburgh had more injuries to "equally important players". I'm not trying to say they've had a tougher row to hoe, but they've had as much adversity as we have. Furthermore, I don't have any idea what value those two have, but you bring up a good point.

Can Yzerman win something...anything...before we go anointing him the next best thing. He's only made the playoffs twice in his tenure, hasn't won a conference championship, and hasn't ever made it to the Cup finals. You'd think the Lightening were absolutely dominant the way people bestow praise on him. I know all the homers love the thought of Stevie Y coming back to Detroit and being a Wing again. I love that story too. But what if he comes back and we're worse? What if Holland's just that much better? What if Stevie isn't capable of finding those late round gems (lost in all this "Holland Sucks" talk is the fact that he drafted Jurco, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Marchenko, Sproul, Quellet, and Mrazek lately)? What if Steve's only ever the thing he's been up till now, a .500 GM at the playoff level? Not so romantic now is it? Until he wins and proves he's a qualified candidate, I don't want him anywhere near the Detroit Red Wings General Manager's Office.

I've never liked the whole "coached the team well despite injuries" argument. By that rationale Blysma should win it, considering Pittsburgh has more injuries to equally important players, and has a better record.

I'll agree with the part about having a better system, in the sense that we at least try to make our forwards be defensively responsible. However, my position on Babcock is well known. He's a good coach, but I don't think he's the best. Blysma's not any better, but he's not any worse either IMO. They've both benefited early in their careers from inheriting otherworldly talent that won them a cup a piece. I guess maybe you'd have to give Babs the nod for taking that Anaheim team to the Cup finals, but I don't think it's as clear cut as everyone else does. Edit: And even if Babs is better, every year since 2010 we've seen what a Red Wings team with few horses and good coaching can do in the playoffs. Admittedly, we've got more up front than we've had for four or five years...but we've also got worse defense and goaltending. I just don't see coaching overcoming our weak blueline.

Yeah from what I understand they're going to be back for the playoffs. Giving them Letang, Martin, Orpik, Niskanen, and Maatta...(I have no idea who their sixth d-man is). That's a far and away better defensive corps than we're fielding, even when we're healthy. Edit: Their sixth defenseman is Scuderi...I forgot. Yikes!

Jimmy Hoffa has a better chance of playing in a Red Wings playoffs game than Jordin Tootoo or Mikael Samuelsson.

You don't think Pittsburgh's defense is better than ours?

I love Backes, but this is pretty indefensible. Boo to him.

You weren't talking about his attitude. You said he didn't play defense. That's just not accurate. Now you're trying to change your tune and make it about his attitude or motivation or something. I'd agree with what you said about Shanny or a young Stevie Y not playing defense. But Fedorov was one of the most talented two way forwards in the history of the game and his defensive skills have never been criticized by anyone (other than you). I don't know what else he'd need to do defensively if you aren't convinced by the two Selke Trophies or the fact that he actually played defenseman for three different National Hockey League teams.

When you talk about Fedorov are you talking about the two time Selke Trophy winning Sergei Fedorov? The one who learned to play hockey in the Soviet Red Army system which essentially created the "two way forward"? That Sergei Fedorov?

Yeesh, Iginla is getting old. There was a time when he would have murdered Rinaldo.

He's the NHL version of Skip Bayless?

It was a clean hit, but he got ROCKED. I'd be amazed if nothing was broken (collarbone) or displaced (shoulder). If he could play right now I'd be shocked. Orpik hits like a truck.

Anybody remember that time Ken Holland said that Nyquist was not going to be a "savior" or something like that? I know what he meant and all, but how much more wrong could he have been?

That's one tough dude. Atta boy kid!

Usually it changes for me, because I like the way particular teams play the game and don't like the way others play. If the Wings got knocked out I'd probably pull for Columbus or St. Louis as they both play pretty hard defensive games. In years past I've always liked the way Phoenix plays and have pulled for them (when not playing us).

I'll say this about the whole "sacrificing offense for defense" thing. Nobody is asking Ovie to be a defensive stalwart. But Stamkos has shown that you can score a TON of goals and still at least try on defense. Is he a defensive stud? No. But he makes an effort. Ovie doesn't.... BUT, Ovie is hardly the only scorer in the league who doesn't really try on defense so it's a bit disingenuous to single him out without saying the same thing about a ton of other guys (past and present).

I agree that Boston is far and away the best team in the East. But I think at least three teams in the West (Chicago, St. Louis, and L.A.) would give them fits. My prediction is Boston definitely does not win the Cup this year.

I'm really not trying to be a pessimist, but I'm still not a believer in our defense...even with Ericsson back in the lineup. They're a sieve, and Jimmy isn't standing tall behind them like he did a year ago.

But that's not what you said. You called him a complimentary player...and he's not. I'd agree that there are better players in the league, or guys that are better leaders or whatever. But to say he's a complimentary player is silly. He had four 100 points seasons while being the primary offensive threat on his team. You're saying he's not "the guy" because he doesn't play defense...and he doesn't, I agree. But lots of guys don't play defense yet still get credit for being first rate players. Certainly nobody would call Kessel, Vanek, Kane, etc. complimentary players. But for whatever reason it's popular these days to downplay just how good Ovechkin is...even if he could be better.

I think you're taking it a little far here. Ovechkin has carried that team on his back into the playoffs many times in his career. While there he's averaging more than a point per game. You're probably the only person in the history of hockey to call an 8 time all-star, three time league MVP, one time scoring leader, three time goal leader, and rookie of the year a "complimentary player". Alex doesn't play defense, I get it. But to suggest he hasn't carried that team on his back for every second of the limited success they've had is silly. Particularly when he's never ever had a quality goaltender, defenseman, or coach.

Because he unilaterally created the new playoff format?

I know, that was the point. Mantha's output is absurd.

Supposedly he's got Helm's speed but with better hands. He's also apparently quite strong on his skates with insane lower body strength. The biggest knock on him that I've read is that he doesn't play a team game and tends to try and do everything himself. Also, early on there were some questions about his attitude that seem to have been taken care of. He's not scoring like Mantha or anything, but he definitely has top six upside and almost certainly top nine.