kipwinger

I understand that those stadiums where named after individuals. Personally I don't like it because it deflects from the community. You're welcome to disagree. As far as the Kid Rock/ICP comment...I was being a smart ass. Lighten up.

Foreshadowing a once in a lifetime career? p.s. Hampus Melen sounds like the name of a totally wicked Scandinavian Metal band.

I generally agree with most things you say, but no thanks on this. I'm not a big fan of personality deification. I'd prefer something that reflects the city/people of Detroit. s***, I'd be happy with something like Hockeytown Arena, Motor City Center, etc. If we absolutely have to name it after an individual then we should name it after a true Detroit hero...like Kid Rock or the Insane Clown Posse

We don't have them, or you personally wouldn't want to move them?

It seems like people are trying to make their case for fighting vs. no fighting by using this incident in microcosm. Truth is, Neil (meathead that he is) shouldn't be suspended for a pretty harmless scrum at the end of the play. Likewise, Franzen didn't "use his stick as a weapon" or "poke a bear" and therefore doesn't really need to defend himself. If we're being honest it probably went something like this. Franzen was having an awesome game and making Ottawa look REALLY bad at home. Neil, being a fan favorite, veteran, and renowned pest didn't like being shown up at home. As such, he decided he was going to give Franzen a little extra attention in the third period. Franzen, not enjoying being buzzed, clipped, and generally roughed up took a couple of whacks at Neil (as almost ALL skill players do when being harassed, see: Kessel, Phil), and Neil did as he's always been known to do and escalated it into a scrum. At which point the refs took control and tossed them both, partially to make sure nothing more serious happened and largely because the game was out of reach and it wouldn't matter. No harm, no foul. Opponents of fighting (like me) can call Neil a meathead, and proponents can call Franzen soft, yellow, a coward. But the truth is, this incident is really a poor way of making a case for either.

I agree. And that's true with or without Kesler at this point.

No way dude, I'm right there with you. I'd love to see Kesler on Dats' wing.

I understand your point of view, but that's the reason why I wanted to know how productive Kesler was on the wing. Because if his most productive years were on the wing, even though he's a great center, then you put him there and leave everyone else where they're comfortable. I think of its kind of like how Zetterberg's most productive years were on the wing. So when it came time to move a center to wing, you're actually gaining by making Zetterberg the one who's moved. But I didn't know if Kesler was better, worse, or the same on the wing. I agree with you that Vanek is a better goal scoring winger, but if Kesler is close (and I think he might be) to Vanek offensively on the wing, then all of his other attributes may in fact push him over the top in terms of utility to this team.

Seems like a Catch-22 to me. The advantage you'd gain by having Kesler at his natural position would likely be offset by the disadvantage you'd have by playing Weiss at a position he's never played in his 10 year career. Pick your poison I guess.

Legitimate question, but weren't all of Kesler's most productive years on the wing? I swear I read (prior to him being mentioned in trade rumors) that Vancouver wanted to bring in a second line center to pay with Kesler on the wing. If this is true (I'm only about 75% sure), why couldn't we just put him on Weiss' wing with Alfie or whomever?

I'm genuinely not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm really trying to understand how Vanek could be a better fit despite all the ways in which Kesler is seemingly so. If, as you've clarified, you think Vanek is a better fit because he scores more goals, and you don't don't really think there's any useful advantage in specialty teams for Kesler, then you might have said so the first time I asked you to clarify. However, until your most recent post all you'd said is that both Vanek and Moulson were better fits, and your reasoning was that Kesler would be moved to the wing here and not take faceoffs. That's why I was confused.

Haha ok. You might want to go back a reread the whole exchange I had with Wings87. While he and I don't see eye to eye, I'd imagine in fairness even he'd agree that I was being a sarcastic about the post in question. You're way off base here. But you'd agree that the post this guy is calling me out on was entirely me being a smartass about your position yes?

And in your opinion that overrides the myriad ways in which he's a better fit (e.g. he's cheaper, under contract, better defensively, better at special teams, younger, faster, and tougher)? The fit is entirely determined by his faceoffs in your opinion?

Can I pick Kesler and Erhoff?

Why do you think they are better fits? It was sarcasm. I was making fun of someone who implied there's no way to determine if Kesler was a better skater than Zetterberg. I disagreed mightily with his post. But yours is worse...way, way, way worse.

I'm seriously not going to argue with you about this. You're right, there's no spreadsheet or evidence gathering method for skating ability so it's apparently impossible to tell who's better. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Which is why it's 100 percent impossible to accurately determine if ANY player in the world is a better skater than ANY other player. Because without an objective measure of skating ability there's simply no way of being sure.

This. The Blues now have a goalie that can steal games all by himself too.

Sure, whatever you say. I'm sure your reason for thinking so is rock solid and you're definitely not just being contrary for the hell of it.

Z is a better skater than Kesler? Whatever you say dude.

But you're not answering what I asked. You keep saying Minnesota is a "placed he'd like". Why do you feel that way?

Skating.

What makes you think so?

So let me get this straight, Neil things Franzen should have to fight him...because he wants Franzen to fight him? Stupid.

As I understand it he has a full NTC, so there's no list. He either approves or disapproves any trade.

Franzen's recapture is a non issue because we don't plan on trading him. Buffalo does plan to trade Erhoff, but they're still on the hook for the recapture penalty because they signed the contract. In his case the recapture penalty is actually pretty wicked, but like I said, it's Buffalo's problem if they want to move him and not anyone else's.