kipwinger

All this stuff about Erhoff's contract is silly. If you traded for him today. Five years from now you could move him at the deadline to a contender with ZERO issues. He's like Sergei Gonchar. He'll bounce around for the rest of his career quarterbacking the PP and moving the puck and eventually someone will get caught holding him when he's 38 and they'll deal with a 4 million cap hit (by that time the cap will be like 90 million anyway) for a year or two and he'll be gone and everyone will be happy with what they got except the last team holding the contract...which won't be us. This is just another one of those things everyone repeats just for the sake of repeating. The only people concerned with his contract are Buffalo, who need to get enough in return on the trade to make the risk of his cap recapture worthwhile. Nobody else cares.

This post rules.

We don't disagree. He's argued the following points tonight and I agree with all of them. 1) Tyler Myers is really good but looks bad because Buffalo sucks 2) Christian Erhoff doesn't get the same consideration even though he's on the same sucky Buffalo team 3) PK Subban and Tyler Myers are seemingly identical cases for comparison 4) Just like when Rob Brown played with Mario Lemieux, Christian Erhoff's numbers were once inflated by being on a good team. But if Tyler Myers goes to a better team and scores more, it will definitely NOT be the result of being on a better team (a la Brown and Erhoff).

Not really sure this matters too much. Lots of people like lots of terrible things, doesn't mean they're a good idea. Like Communism, or Justin Bieber.

I agree. Buffalo is terrible. It's amazing that Myers has been able to score 17 points on such a terrible team. And since Christian Erhoff is on the same terrible team, his 28 pts. are extra, super, duper, mega, extraordinary awesome. And both of those guys are better than PK Subban, who only looks good because he's on a mediocre team instead of a crappy one. We're on the same page now. I like you not give up lol. You no give up eva...F me.

No need. I conceded. You win. Tyler Myers is as good as PK Subban. Just like you've been trying to prove all night.

My roommate's from Buffalo and we have the NHL package. I see a lot of their games. He's not very good. He's as bad defensively as Subban and scores half as often. You cannot possible still be trying to argue that Myers is in any way comparable to Subban can you? I mean, you've got to see how that doesn't carry water. That it's just argument for argument's sake. That one of those guys is a dynamic offensive threat who's bad a defense while the other is just bad at defense. Right? I tell you what, if you REALLY think Myers is the same as Subban, that they're both poor defensively but that their offense makes them worth their money then I'll concede. You win. I honestly can't argue with you if you REALLY believe what you're trying to convince me of right now.

I agree.

Nobody is saying Erhoff is Lidstrom. Enough hyperbole. All he's saying is that a proven Erhoff at 4 million is a better option than an unproven Myers at 5.5 million. You're welcome to disagree, but don't put words in his mouth. His argument is pretty easy to follow, even if you don't believe it. Also, it's not too far fetched to think Erhoff could score 50 pts. considering he's already done it once in his career.

When Myers scores as often as Subban people might be willing to overlook his glaring defensive lapses too. He doesn't, so they don't.

This is an honest question...are you drunk right now?

Wait, so you REALLY don't see the difference between Pronger or Chara and Karlsson or Subban? You think they're all offensive defensemen? Really?

You can't seriously have read my last post and thought that what I said was "Pronger and Chara don't create offense". They do. But they're defense first defenseman who chipped in offense. But chipping in offense wasn't their main responsibility or concern. Compare that to Erik Karlsson...who is an offensive defenseman. If you still don't recognize the difference you're being intentionally obstinate.

Jesus, The Fourth Period has the Wings in on Edler AND Kesler. Says the asking price is a young proven roster player, top prospect, and high draft pick for each. I don't know who they'd want or who Holland considers untouchable, but could you imagine?

I'm not saying Myers is horrible. I'm saying he's not very good. He's Smith...except he makes 6 million bucks. So signing him would be HORRIBLE. He turns the puck over a lot and blows coverage, just like a lot of young d-men. But he doesn't get paid like a young defeseman who's still learning, he gets paid like a stud (he's not). He's not an upgrade over either Quincey or Dekeyser, so why trade for him (unless you want 6 million bucks on your third pair). I don't. Chara and Pronger are offensive defensemen? You realize that when people talk about offensive minded defensemen they're not talking about guys who score on the PP right? They're talking about guys who look to generate 5-on-5 offense from the back end, like Mike Green, Keith Yandle, Dan Boyle, Brian Campbell. Pronger and Chara are not offensive minded d-man. Not in this world or any other. If you think so, I don't know what to tell you.

Wow I feel like you're accidentally trying to make my points for me. PK Subban was benched on a stacked Team Canada. Tyler Myers didn't even get a try out for a less stacked Team USA. Why do you keep trying to compare Subban to Myers? Subban is clearly 2,000,000 times better than Myers. They're not even close to comparable.

Yeah that'd sure show me.

PK Subban is a Norris Trophy winner. Tyler Myers is a chronic underachiever whose team is desperately trying to get rid of him. If you think that comparison is valid I don't know what to tell you.

There's not a disconnect at all. He plays a similar style to Pronger or Chara...if Pronger or Chara were bad instead of really good. He's a defensive d-man who gets PP points because of a big shot. Myers is absolutely nothing like Green...who is essentially another forward.

We probably wouldn't have to overpay...because he's not very good and he's signed to a prohibitive contract. There's a reason you'd get him cheap...he's not worth the money. Just because you CAN get a guy doesn't mean you should. We're right in the thick of a playoff race and we're seriously talking about trading for a guy who makes more money and plays worse than the guy we're talking about moving out...all because a change of scenery MIGHT do him good? No thanks. Trade for Gilbert, or MacDonald, or Erhoff. At least they've got a track record of success. Or don't trade for anyone. All of those options are better than trading for a guy who's not very good in hopes that years from now he'll improve. If Holland traded Quincey for Myers and we missed the playoffs...particularly if Myers continued with his piss poor defensive play...everyone here would be ready to burn them both at the stake.

I don't understand your point? Myers can't be bad because the team's bad? He's a defensive defenseman who gets lost in coverage. Who's fault is that if not his?

Textbook case of the grass is always greener. Tyler Myers is infuriatingly bad at defense. He's like Jack Johnson without the offense or the coordination. He's not better than Quincey right now, and he probably doesn't project to be better than Smith in the long run. Buffalo would love to get rid of him had their s***ty former GM not given him the moon after one good year. If you guys think Quincey, Smith, Kindl are mistake prone you will lose your minds watching this guy. He's not a defensive upgrade in any manner. Don't believe the hype.

You don't even have to go as far as Probie and Kocur. There's probably a dozen guys in the league right now that would butcher Neil. Which is why he gets in scrums with kids (Smith) and goal scorers (Franzen) now. It's hard to be taken seriously as a fighter when you've been beaten by every heavyweight and most middle weights in the league.

I think Scott actually started his NHL career as a defenseman but I don't remember. Either way he's terrible, so I get your point.

For sure he's got more upside. But so far, he's never played up to his potential. He gets by on his size and draft position, but he's really not very consistent at this point. His boneheaded miscues make Smith look like Sergei Zubov.