kipwinger

I think it's about right. He attacked the wrong guy, from behind, after the whistle, slew footed him, and punched him while he was down. It was a VERY ugly incident and I'm not a fan of it. Having said that, Neal should have got more too.

Boring. Give me Jurco or give me death!

I'm guess I'm confused. Are you saying that FSD fired Murphy specifically so that they could hire Osgood, or that Murphy was fired for whatever reason and then Osgood ended up getting the vacant position? I was under the impression that Murphy was fired for some unknown reason, but I never got the idea that he was fired because they wanted Osgood and/or Elliot more? Anyway, I agree that Murphy was better.

Fair enough, and I'm not disagreeing with your criticisms. I guess I'm just ok with his shortcomings when balanced against what he brings to the table. But as I've said all along, I assume he'll be replaced by someone better soon enough, and I wouldn't be opposed to him being moved now in the right package.

Murphy was not fired because FSD wanted Osgood, as evidenced by the fact that Osgood didn't take a position until nearly a year after Murph was fired. Where'd you get this idea that Murphy was fired for Osgood?

Agreed, it would definitely take more than Kindl to get him. And I meant he'd be a stop gap in the sense that you have quality young offensive d-men coming and likely given Kulikov's age he won't get a super long term deal. 3 maybe 4 years max.

I realize that there's a tendency to not want to say anything about a hockey hero that might come across as criticism. But if you think that Gordie Howe didn't use his elbows in an unadvised way, you probably need to take a look at some of the myriad of articles, interviews, commentary, etc. that make reference to how often he would be suspended or fined if he played today. It's ok to be a fan boy, but to make Gordie Howe out to be some kind of gentleman does a disservice to what made Gordie Howe awesome in the first place. He didn't fight, but man was he dirty.

Well said.

Dekeyser coming back would likely have no effect on Kindl, as his return would push Lashoff down the ladder.

Manhandled? You make it seem like Cown shook Pavel like a baby. He skated by him and grazed his face. Nobody, aside from Red Wings fans, thought it was particularly vicious. You can make an argument that it doesn't matter, the head was touched and Cowen needs to be responsible for it. I'd have a hard time disagreeing. But manhandling? Give me a break. Edit: Also, why is it that the self styled defenders of "old time hockey" seem to think that every little offense resulted in a fight back then? Gordie Howe was notorious for elbowing yet only had 22 career fights. Why? Because nobody expected you to fight for throwing an elbow. So if you really want "Old Time Hockey", then when Pavel gets elbowed, you should expect him to stop being a pansy and take it like a man instead of wanting Babs to send out an enforcer.

Good post. It's counter intuitive to argue that this type of thing is no big deal because in the old days it wouldn't have been. In the old days people used to put Mercury on open wounds to help cuts heal. If you did that now you'd be a lunatic. Because it used to be common doesn't mean it still should be.

Look, the gist of what you're getting at is that he should be much better. I agree. I'm at work so I really don't want to go through that post point by point. So, off the cuff, here's a couple things. 1. I never said he gets a free pass defensively, I said less is expected because he's an offensive d-man. That's not really out of the blue either. Nobody expects Kronwall to be as good defensively as Suter, or even Francois Beauchemin...because he's an offensive d-man. Same applies for third pairing guys (except the expectations are even lower). 2. Of course more is expected of Quincey, it should be. He's a better, and more established player than Kindl or Smith. The fact that he's not living up to it is what's so baffling. 3. This is perhaps where you and I differ when it comes to Kindl. I think his second worst +/- is more than offset by his second best point total for a defenseman (on this team). I think his defense leading turnovers (tied with Smith) are probably offset by having the fewest penalties of any defenseman (Smith is first). The fact that 50% of his scoring comes on the powerplay is really no different than Kronwall's 50% scored on the powerplay (including all his goals). 4. Finally, he's also third on the defense in takeaways, fourth in hits, fifth in blocked shots, first in games played, and tied for second in shots on goal. In conclusion: All of the above suggests to me that he's a decent middle of the road defenseman. Which he is. He's not more, or less. And really, was the organization expecting a whole lot more. Sure, when he was drafted the expected more. But that ship sailed a long time ago. He's a middle of the pack guy who will (rightly) be replaced the second somebody better comes along. If that's enough to get blamed for all the cosmological woes of Red Wings nation then I guess he deserves it, but I think it's excessive. It would be like blaming Drew Miller for how bad the team is. First line players also play with better teammates, so chances are his already decent offensive numbers would be a lot better.

Of course they do, they're third pairing defensemen. Here's a revelation, every single team's third pairing defensemen make more mistakes than their top pairing guys. Every team's second line wingers aren't as good as their top line guys. That's nothing new. But since it's the same for everyone, my guess is it doesn't make much of a difference to the team's overall standing. The balance of our season does not pivot on the play of Kindl or Quincey. Thinking it does is misguided. The reason I'm going easy on him is because he's a third pairing d-man who gets paid to chip in offense and he does that. Quincey gets paid to be a defensive d-man and doesn't stop goals, Smith gets paid to be an offensive d-man and doesn't produce points, but Kindl actually does what he's supposed to do. Produces modest points for a third pairing guy. Getting on Kindl for not playing good defense is a lot like getting on Lashoff for not scoring goals.

I was saying earlier this season that I'd love a guy like Kulikov on this team. He'll I'd even trade Kindl to get him. Just as a bridge until two things happen (1) Smith, becomes a legit top four offensive d-man, and (2) Sproul or Quellet or whomever is ready to step into the third pairing offensive d-man role. So for me, ideally... Kronwall-Ericsson Kulikov-Dekeyser Smith-Lashoff Kindl or Quencey as the 7th. And in a couple years Kronwall-Ericsson Smith-Dekeyser Sproul/Ouellet-Lashoff Whoever is leftover between Sproul/Ouellet as the 7th

I agree he's not as good as last year, but when you've already got that opinion of a guy you're looking for every little thing he does wrong. And when it's a third pairing defenseman, there's a lot of ammo. Example: It was either last game, or two games ago that Datsyuk got completely undressed along the goal line for a goal. Not a single mention of it in the GDT. Why? It doesn't happen often, and nobody scrutinizes Datsyuk. It's easier to keep banging away on something Kindl or Quincey does. Another Example: Mr. streaky and inconsistent Johan Franzen had shorter goal scoring droughts last year than Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Any mention at the time of them disappearing from the score sheet? Nope. Franzen gets that title hung from his neck. Why? Because he's already got the inconsistent tag. In conclusion, Kindl isn't very good defensively. He's not supposed to be. He's a third pairing guy who's an offensive d-man and is on track to score around 30 pts. this year. He's doing his job. We're not losing games because of Kindl.

Well damn. Thank god for the overtime point.

Datsyuk, Tatar, Bert. C'mon Babs.

Jesus, lots of pessimism in the GDT for a game that's tied. Bunch of sourpusses!

Also, Marty St. Louis is the most underrated player in the league. And that's saying something because pretty much everyone thinks he's great. But that guy does it all...and with class. What a hockey player.

Bishop's looked impressive. Almost as impressive as that time I saw him running amok crushing buildings in Tokyo.

Tomas Tatar is ******* awesome, just saying.

I'm streaming the Tampa feed, they love them some Filppula. Can't quit talking about the guy.

Atta boy Quincey!!!!!!!

Who ever said he was knocked out? All I heard was that he was concussed, which can happen without being knocked out.

I just want to see Jurco already. Any chance we can make room for him given all the new cap and roster space?