kipwinger

Wow, I had no idea how many trained medical professionals there were on LGW. I should have known after a good portion of the forum concluded that Orpik "shouldn't" have been injured by Thornton, but it's pretty clear now that you've all chimed in on Franzen's injury. Keep up the good work guys and gals, this thread wouldn't be the same without you pulling comments out of nowhere to validate your preconceived bias against Franzen. So anyway, what's your opinion on something hockey related? Literally, ANYTHING hockey related.

In your heart? Yeah right.

Every team always says that fighting through injuries only makes them stronger down the line. Is that true or something people just say? We'll see.

Dear Mike Babcock, You already make us suffer through having Dan Cleary on the team. Why do you make us suffer through having him on the powerplay too? If it's a joke, your sense of humor is truly dark. Sincerely and Respectfully, Kip

Dear Red Wings, Ben Bishop is f*cking huge. Please stop shooting the puck directly at him, and perhaps try to get him moving side to side a bit. If it doesn't work, no harm done. What you're currently doing doesn't work either. Regards, Kip

Yeah, Jurco's a little outclassed against the big boys. Move Tatar up and put Jurco on the third. See what he can do against lesser competition.

I mean, I definitely agree that he's got the best shot of any Griffin to make the team. I just don't see it happening yet, given that while impressive he's still got some sizeable holes in his game. Then again, maybe he'll be like Lashoff and really thrive at the NHL level. Who knows? Also, looking at his pics I'm fairly sure he won't be able to grow a sweet stache until he finally hits puberty.

I'm watching it right now. It would be really good if it weren't for all that crap about the Maple Leafs.

If you jump over to the other Thornton thread, you'll find a link I posted to the Orpik hit. It's got the video in slow motion and clearly shows that Eriksson did touch the puck. I'll agree that Orpik was hitting him whether he touched it or not, but almost by pure accident Eriksson did touch it. No suspension, no penalty, good call. HaroldSnepts put it best, the hit wasn't illegal or dirty, but it was definitely predatory. That's true, but there's nothing wrong with predatory hits...cough, cough...Kronwall.

I'm pretty juiced about this kid. Prior to Mantha being drafted I figured Jurco and Frk to be the next really solid prospects coming down the pipeline. So far Frk hasn't panned out for me, but still pumped about Jurco. To be honest though, I still think this kid is a year or two away. I view this call up a little like when Tatar was called up three or four years ago and scored in his first game. I can't imagine he'll be on the team next season.

Sweet. I've been wanting to see this kid for a while. I imagine Babs will give him about six minutes tonight.

You know, given your predilection for the fighting part of the game, I'm actually impressed with how even handed this post was. Kudos to you for recognizing that what happened was unacceptable, and giving a reasonable assessment of what should have happened based on your preferred interpretation of the game. While I disagree, I can at least respect you logic...and that is nice considering how things have been around here recently. Good f****** post man.

Orpik should have got suspended for a clean hit that wasn't even assessed a penalty? Okay.

I think it's about right. He attacked the wrong guy, from behind, after the whistle, slew footed him, and punched him while he was down. It was a VERY ugly incident and I'm not a fan of it. Having said that, Neal should have got more too.

Boring. Give me Jurco or give me death!

I'm guess I'm confused. Are you saying that FSD fired Murphy specifically so that they could hire Osgood, or that Murphy was fired for whatever reason and then Osgood ended up getting the vacant position? I was under the impression that Murphy was fired for some unknown reason, but I never got the idea that he was fired because they wanted Osgood and/or Elliot more? Anyway, I agree that Murphy was better.

Fair enough, and I'm not disagreeing with your criticisms. I guess I'm just ok with his shortcomings when balanced against what he brings to the table. But as I've said all along, I assume he'll be replaced by someone better soon enough, and I wouldn't be opposed to him being moved now in the right package.

Murphy was not fired because FSD wanted Osgood, as evidenced by the fact that Osgood didn't take a position until nearly a year after Murph was fired. Where'd you get this idea that Murphy was fired for Osgood?

Agreed, it would definitely take more than Kindl to get him. And I meant he'd be a stop gap in the sense that you have quality young offensive d-men coming and likely given Kulikov's age he won't get a super long term deal. 3 maybe 4 years max.

I realize that there's a tendency to not want to say anything about a hockey hero that might come across as criticism. But if you think that Gordie Howe didn't use his elbows in an unadvised way, you probably need to take a look at some of the myriad of articles, interviews, commentary, etc. that make reference to how often he would be suspended or fined if he played today. It's ok to be a fan boy, but to make Gordie Howe out to be some kind of gentleman does a disservice to what made Gordie Howe awesome in the first place. He didn't fight, but man was he dirty.

Well said.

Dekeyser coming back would likely have no effect on Kindl, as his return would push Lashoff down the ladder.

Manhandled? You make it seem like Cown shook Pavel like a baby. He skated by him and grazed his face. Nobody, aside from Red Wings fans, thought it was particularly vicious. You can make an argument that it doesn't matter, the head was touched and Cowen needs to be responsible for it. I'd have a hard time disagreeing. But manhandling? Give me a break. Edit: Also, why is it that the self styled defenders of "old time hockey" seem to think that every little offense resulted in a fight back then? Gordie Howe was notorious for elbowing yet only had 22 career fights. Why? Because nobody expected you to fight for throwing an elbow. So if you really want "Old Time Hockey", then when Pavel gets elbowed, you should expect him to stop being a pansy and take it like a man instead of wanting Babs to send out an enforcer.

Good post. It's counter intuitive to argue that this type of thing is no big deal because in the old days it wouldn't have been. In the old days people used to put Mercury on open wounds to help cuts heal. If you did that now you'd be a lunatic. Because it used to be common doesn't mean it still should be.

Look, the gist of what you're getting at is that he should be much better. I agree. I'm at work so I really don't want to go through that post point by point. So, off the cuff, here's a couple things. 1. I never said he gets a free pass defensively, I said less is expected because he's an offensive d-man. That's not really out of the blue either. Nobody expects Kronwall to be as good defensively as Suter, or even Francois Beauchemin...because he's an offensive d-man. Same applies for third pairing guys (except the expectations are even lower). 2. Of course more is expected of Quincey, it should be. He's a better, and more established player than Kindl or Smith. The fact that he's not living up to it is what's so baffling. 3. This is perhaps where you and I differ when it comes to Kindl. I think his second worst +/- is more than offset by his second best point total for a defenseman (on this team). I think his defense leading turnovers (tied with Smith) are probably offset by having the fewest penalties of any defenseman (Smith is first). The fact that 50% of his scoring comes on the powerplay is really no different than Kronwall's 50% scored on the powerplay (including all his goals). 4. Finally, he's also third on the defense in takeaways, fourth in hits, fifth in blocked shots, first in games played, and tied for second in shots on goal. In conclusion: All of the above suggests to me that he's a decent middle of the road defenseman. Which he is. He's not more, or less. And really, was the organization expecting a whole lot more. Sure, when he was drafted the expected more. But that ship sailed a long time ago. He's a middle of the pack guy who will (rightly) be replaced the second somebody better comes along. If that's enough to get blamed for all the cosmological woes of Red Wings nation then I guess he deserves it, but I think it's excessive. It would be like blaming Drew Miller for how bad the team is. First line players also play with better teammates, so chances are his already decent offensive numbers would be a lot better.