kipwinger

So you're not going to address a single thing I said and focus solely on my well documented opposition to fighting eh? Again, please tell me what he brings to the table that's worth 1.9 million dollars to a cap crunched team?

Fighting in hockey is stupid, everybody knows my position on it. There I said it, I feel better. My opinion on fighting is not why I think Tootoo is the odd man out. I think that because he makes more than Eaves and plays far, far, far less. You can make this about my position on fighting if you want, but you still haven't really explained why Tootoo hardly plays if indeed he's so valuable. You're talking about of both sides of your mouth. You imply that Tootoo brings a unique skill set and that every team that wins the Cup needs at least one guy with a unique skill set. So far, I can sorta go along with you. But then you say it's not about his hitting for fighting, which are the only thing he brings that are unique on this team. He does not play special teams, he's not a defensive whiz, he provides no offense, and he plays less than all other forwards 5-on-5. Then you say it's about some amorphous intangibles like bringing "energy" and "pumping up the crowd". But those aren't unique skills. Big saves, goals, important penalty kills, all "provide energy" and "pump up the crowd". Even by your standards he fails to bring more intangibles than anyone else...except hitting and fighting, which you say isn't the point. Tootoo hits and fights. And that's fine, he should play his game. But he doesn't do anything else of value that someone else doesn't do better...and the Red Wings HARDLY value that. That's why he's the odd man out.

I think you're wholly misrepresenting Kaleta here. He's never going to be confused with Henrik Zetterberg, but as far as bottom sixers go, he's got pretty good skating, defense, and penalty killing ability. He doesn't light the world on fire offensively, but then again he's a fourth line agitator for Buffalo, so his chances to put the puck on net are few and far between. My old roomie was from Buffalo and I've had to sit through far more of their games than a person ever should, so I've seen quite a lot of Kaleta over the years. As I said before, he's as good as Tootoo and probably better. Kaleta's problem isn't his game, it's all between the ears.

You might have a point about Karlsson, if you think Cooke intentionally tried to cut his ankle. But you're off base with Savard. That hit happened in 2010 and Cooke was not given a suspension. It wasn't until the 2011 hit on McDonagh that Cooke received his lengthy suspension and subsequently "cleaned up his act". Whether you believe that he is reformed or not, you certainly cannot claim that the Savard hit is proof that he isn't because that hit happened prior to his supposed reformation. Additionally, I would like to point out that in the two seasons since his big suspension he's had 44 and 36 penalty minutes respectively, with zero major penalties, and one misconducts in combined seasons. Prior to the suspension he was coming off three straight 100+ pim seasons, with 12 majors and 7 misconducts combined. Compare his last two years with Abdelkader's 62 and 34 pims, 8 majors, and one misconduct during that same time span and you'll see that there's at least some reason to believe that he's turned his game around. The real issue is that he should have been playing that way the whole time.

Didn't know where I should put this so I'm putting it here. Pretty sure I just found...Doc Emrick at the Tigers game. Looked like they had him on camera in Tigers gear.

I'd like to see...just for a game or two. Alfie-Dats-Bert Zetterberg-Weiss-Franzen Tatar-Andersson-Abby Miller-Helm-Cleary Tootoo-Eaves

We have more guys in their twenties than in their thirties. Now apparently we're not young enough. Do we need to be Edmonton to be considered young? Oh wait, their average age of 27.2 isn't noticeably different than our 28.6. That average will be even lower in two weeks when Helm and Eaves return to the lineup. Buffalo has the lowest average age in the league at 25.3. Unless you're splitting hairs we're just as young as everybody else...within reason.

Gustavsson was never as bad as he looked last year, and once you dig into the stats a little bit you realize he wasn't even THAT bad during that campaign. I'm prefacing this by saying that when your team doesn't score at all, or when they get blown out, the goalie is not really to blame. So in the 0-6 loss to St. Louis and the 1-7 loss to Chicago (in both games Howard got scored on more than Gus) he's not really to blame. Likewise, in the 0-3 loss to Columbus he's not really to blame. Obviously something was wrong in that game, and upon inspection you'll find that we lost 66% of total faceoffs, and turned the puck over 11 times. So excluding those games you're left with... 3-4 overtime loss (in this game we had 19 turnovers and gave Nashville 6 powerplays) 2-1 shootout win 2-5 loss (purely Gustavsson's fault, 5 goals on 22 shots) 3-2 win Not great by any means, but he had as many good games as bad ones last year.

"It’s just a read. If you don’t change the way you visually see the game, then change is impossible." - Matt Cooke Translation: Once you begin seeing opposing players as human beings, and not like animals to be slaughtered, it's much easier to play hockey without intentionally trying to ruin their lives.

Zing.

Sure, that's a definite possibility. And perhaps Buffalo is a long shot in that regard. But Sammy has a history with Florida, had a moderate degree of success with them, and every young team needs veterans around the locker room. An example would be Vinny Prospal with Columbus. He was a guy at the tail end of his career who was a successful contributor on a young team and really helped in the leadership department. Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not out of the ballpark either.

Well what makes it plausible is that he's in the last year of his contract. Anybody who picked him up would certainly be taking a gamble, but if it didn't pay off it's not like they'd be stuck with him. Like I said, I think an offensively challenged team or perhaps one with some injury problems MIGHT be willing to take the chance on him given his history, if only for a half of a season. Remember that contracts are pro-rated as the season progresses, so any team that picked him up wouldn't be on the hook for his full yearly salary anyway. Only the cap hit would count against them, and only for the remainder of this season. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it's not as outlandish as it sounds initially, and it's certainly more likely than someone trading assets for him. Edit: Teams like Buffalo, Florida, Calgary, Ottawa, New Jersey, or Nashville are all on the low end of the cap picture, and also seem to be having trouble finding consistent offense. As such, they certainly fit the bill as far as teams that might take a chance. Especially if they find themselves competitive in spite of their offensive woes like Ottawa, Calgary, and Nashville have.

I definitely think an offensively challenged team would take Sammy for 1 million. But I think it would be smarter to waive him first and see if anyone picks him up before offering to eat salary. He doesn't have a no movement clause though, so he can be waived and picked up by someone else.

It's not just this season though, last year Tootoo played less at even strength than every other (regular) forward. Only Mursak, Helm, and Sheahan had less ES time on ice per game. He also hardly used him in the playoffs, what was it...a game or two? This year it's even less. Now factor in the fact that we're taking more penalties so far this year and his available time on ice is further decreased. You may be right about each team needing something different, but that doesn't mean the "something different" should be a one dimensional guy who hits. Maybe the "something different" is a freak offensive d-man like Karlsson, or maybe it's a Holmstrom type net front guy who makes the difference. Maybe it's a Dustin Byfuglien type "rover". Maybe all of the above. But I think it's misleading to suggest that the "something different" on which a Stanley Cup depends (according to you) needs to be a fourth line hitter who plays six or seven minutes a night and only in 5-on-5 situations. That's giving the guy WAY more credit than he's earned.

Look man, you may be right. Again, I like Tootoo. But I've been watching this team a long time, and the trend has always been toward more skilled, more versatile players. Plus, the fact that every team would like a guy like Tootoo only makes it MORE likely that he'll be the one moved. Finally, consider that he makes more than Eaves and you've got a perfect storm. A guy who makes more than his immediate competition, who would find a fit on most teams, yet who's skill set doesn't really fit into our organizational philosophy is far more likely to be traded than a guy who plays the right style, fills multiple roles, and who doesn't make as much. Also, it's pretty clear that Babs has no faith in Tootoo. When the coach plays you less than your competition, you're not likely to stick around for long. Again, I'm not saying your assessment of Tootoo is wrong. On most teams with almost any other GM and coach I'd say he'd have a fighting chance. Almost every armchair GM would keep him too. But on this team, with this style, and this management, I'd say he's the more likely candidate of the two.

Only if you value hitting more than the other things. It should be apparent by now, the Wings value versatility and skill FAR more than they value hitting and fighting. As such, Tootoo has "more value" to the team you wish the Wings were, and not to the one that they actually are. I like Tootoo, and if we weren't so hamstrung by s***ty contracts I'd like to see him remain on the team. But I don't think there's any chance that the Wings keep him over Eaves. Then again, there's always the chance they move them both so who knows?

Agreed on all points. It's pure disrespect for the safety of other players, and it has no place in the game. What's really annoying about Kaleta is that he doesn't even need to be playing like that. He could, if he wanted, play exactly like Jordin Tootoo and perhaps better. He's capable of skating a regular shift at the NHL level, he's got good skating, defense, and penalty killing ability and has also shown that he can chip in respectable offensive numbers for a fourth liner. He's no George Parros. He could be a productive bottom sixer if he'd pull his head out of his ass.

Because Abby, Miller, Glendening, Kindl, Ericsson, Smith, Lashoff, Dekeyser, Tatar, Quincey, Andersson, Howard, and Gustavsson are all in their twenties.

Eaves is a much better all around player. He kills penalties, Tootoo doesn't. He scores goals occasionally, Tootoo doesn't. He's a really good defender, Tootoo isn't. Tootoo hits much better than Eaves, and that is unique, but in every other facet of the game Patrick Eaves is a superior player to Jordin Tootoo.

Awww, look at you worried about your baby goalie. How cute.

Good save by Gustavsson. Atta boy!

It's more of a knock on the general anti-veteran sentiment that's been pervasive since Cleary resigned. I agree with you about Bert though.

2 goals on the season for Bert...what a waste of space.

He definitely needs to start shooting more. He's being way too nice to his linemates.

I'll take it.