kipwinger

Ok, so what did you mean when you said young guys should "take a run" at veterans and "knock them out of the lineup for a bit"? Just curious, since I've obviously got it wrong and god knows you couldn't possibly have meant to say something so dumb.

But you'd agree that based on the numbers, Frank's assertion that "the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be" is probably not accurate, or even remotely true? Which was the whole point I was making to begin with. Edit: I'd also like to make sure you and I both understanding that yielding this point does not mean that somehow one or the other of us is right about the place of fighting in hockey, but simply that one of us is right when discussing the overall popularity of the NHL, and the Red Wings in general. Conceding that point simply means you see the evidence and believe it, not that you've somehow changed your tune with regard to fighting.

Ok, I'll read that when I've got a minute. But just for the record, based on the links I've provided do we at least now agree that more people attended Wings games (on average) last year than in 97-98 when they had their tough guy enforcers?

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/1998 Ok, this is it...finally. I'm watching this Tigers game and hardly paying attention to anything else. It's an amazing freaking game!

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2013 This link will give you the attendance for any year you want, including the two I mentioned.

Haha, cute. Except none of the "anti-fighting" crowd is questioning anything like this, mostly because it's not true. It's just another thing you've completely made up to legitimize your personal preference. Here in the real world, dominated by facts, league revenue and television viewership is still steadily increasing, despite the diminishing number of fights. Edit: Also, Detroit was third in the league in attendance last season. We actually had higher average attendance last year than we did during the 97-98 Cup season. So it really is just as full as it ever was. Here's proof... http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/nhl/2012/?sort=avg_att Maybe don't make stuff up if you want to have intelligent discussions here on the discussion forum. Just a thought.

I mean, it might well have been because of injury, but as dense as I think Babs is sometimes, surely he must have noticed that their combined 7 goals and 8 assists (at even strength) in the playoffs was an INCREDIBLY effective effort for a third line.

I think you'll see it before long. Babs had no problem playing the kids on that line last season. I think right now they're trying to showcase certain players for potential trades, and also trying to figure out which guys they want to keep. I realistically imagine that the kids will form the third line, and some combination of Cleary, Emmerton, Miller, and Bertuzzi will make up the fourth until Helm is healthy. It's coming, but we've all got to be patient. A few more stinkers like last game will undoubtedly speed up the process as well.

Haha, the U.S. is the "greatest in the world" because we injure our friends and teammates to get what they have? It's funny, I don't remember them teaching me that in basic training when I was in the Army. Tell me again about what makes the country great?

So you'd be ok with it if Jarnkrok took a run at Zetterberg and injured him to "win the job"? I don't believe you. And this is a big if, but even if you actually believe that it says quite a lot about your character.

If nobody were allowed to change their minds I'd still think Sesame Street was the greatest show in the world, and I'd still want to be a transformer when I grew up.

Do you honestly not see any difference between an enforcer taking boxing lessons, and one teammate taking "a run" at another teammate in order to "knock him out of the lineup for a while"? I think that you do, and I think you're just being obtuse just for the sake of it. Futhermore, I certainly don't think you'd have advocated this position if it were say...Filppula hurting Datsyuk in order to gain an opportunity he didn't previously have. Nice try, but I'm not buying what you're selling.

Jesus, you're ok with it too. Listen I'm all for young guys outplaying older ones, happens all the time. He suggested that they should "take runs" at veteran players and injure them during practice in order to make an opportunity for themselves. That isn't outplaying anyone. That's borderline psychotic. It's not at all different than what Tonya Harding did to Nancy Kerrigan. It's f*cking nuts! These guys are your teammates, your buddies, not your f*cking Game of Thrones rival.

Are you advocating hurting your own teammate in practice to get ahead? How very "Black Swan" of you. I'd hate to be your coworker, god knows what you'd do for a better parking spot.

I guess this is where we differ. You'd apparently rather watch two teams, neither of whom you're a fan of, just because they're more likely to punch each other. I'd rather watch the Red Wings win. I'd rather watch Datsyuk dangle, Kronwall hit, and Jimmy stand on his head. I'd rather see the game where our powerplay finally comes alive, or Alfie get his first goal as a Wing, or a four goal night from Mule, or Mrazek come off the bench because of a (non-serious) injury to Jimmy and play out of this world. There's no need to invent drama in sports, there's always something there. Even against the Panthers. I always thought that's what makes a diehard fan. When you don't miss a game, regardless of the opponent. When you don't leave early, even during a loss. When you always find something to be excited about. When you'd rather watch the Detroit Red Wings play the Phoenix Coyotes than the Bruins and the Habs, not because it'll be the best game ever, but because they're the Detroit F*cking Red Wings and they're the best team ever. And for games like against Carolina. A nobody. But apparently, when you're being honest, you'd rather see one guy punch another guy.

Don't name it after a Red Wing, name it after someone especially deserving here on LGW. Then we can all compete for your favor by "liking" all your posts. Person with the most "likes" wins the prize.

Haha, what are you talking about? The Wings team has been populated by such monumental bad*sses as Brad May, Dallas Drake, and Aaron Downey. And as you well know, those men are collectively responsible for keeping Dats, Z, and Lidstrom safe during those years. Nowadays, Tootoo, Ericsson, and Bertuzzi can't hold and candle to those great gladiators of the past.

I thought the second line looked really good for the first period of the first game, but then the whole team stopped playing after we got the lead. Nobody played good against Boston either, so I still have high hopes that the second line will come together.

Haha, nice try. Tell me again about how you'd rather be a past "romanizer".

Haha, I think I got it right the first time. Knuckle draggers are the guys you're advocating keeping on hockey teams.

I believe it's called the "Ovechtrick". Look it up.

Seems to me like the big argument for fighting is that it stops the dirty players from being dirty and taking "runs" at your guys. For the moment I'm willing to overlook the fact that fighting has been around forever, and so have dirty players, and as of yet the former has yet to deter the latter. My biggest concern here is rather that the majority of fights don't have anything to do with dirty plays. If you exclude opening faceoff (Tootoo) fights, and fights that occur because of LEGAL (yet still hard) hits, and fights between enforcers who aren't involved in any dirty play (Orr vs. Parros), and fights that break out because other fights are going on (Miller vs. Bernier), or enforcer rematches, then you're left with very few fights where guys are policing dirty play. As Red Wings fans, we don't see a lot of fights. We also all remember Lemieux on Draper, or Weber on Zetterberg, and those things leave a bad taste in our mouths. So it's just natural to assume that things like this are the primary cause of fights. But the sad fact is that most fights have nothing to do with policing the game. There's nothing that noble going on most of the time. Fights happen because they always have, and for the time being they are still looked upon favorably by too many sad, old, apes who can't stop romanticizing the past.

Well that could have been worse. I thought we weren't moving our feet good enough, and passing up WAY too many shots. Overall a very tentative period.

Jesus, that kid can shoot huh? They highlighted him on Red Wings live and that's the scouting report anyway.

"Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years..." Despite LL Cool J's warning, I'm calling it. Edit: I was already typing this when we scored. See? I'm magic.