kipwinger

I'm having a hard time determining whether I'm being added in here out of sarcasm, or if you actually think I'm in favor of "gooning it up" based on my previous posts around this forum. If the latter, then I've obviously been very unclear for the last several years. In short, I've never EVER been in favor of gooning it up. Although I did once make a fantasy roster of goons just to screw with Blueadams, but that was tongue in cheek.

Weiss has consistently produced more than Val. The fact that he has earned more PP time on his respective team, and made good use of that time by scoring a lot, shouldn't be held against him. There's a reason he gets more PP time and more even strength time than Val does...he's a better player. If Val scored as often as Weiss does on the PP then he'd see more minutes.

They actually measure that stat at hockeyanalysis.com. Filppula's teammates are WAY better than Weiss' across the board. That's saying something when Filppula's second and third line teammates are better than Weiss' first line support.

Filppula has one season with more than 20 goals and 40 pts. Weiss has four 20+ goal seasons and six 40+ point seasons. Weiss also is a career 50% faceoff guy, is noticeably faster than Filppula, shoots more often, plays stellar defense, and kills penalties. He's a MUCH better player than Filppula. I don't know if he's the answer to all of Detroit's offensive woes, but to suggest that he's not is a significant upgrade over Filppula is absurd.

You don't really need big centers to be a big tough team. None of the Bruins' centers (who play) are over 200 pounds. Yet everybody correctly assumes that they're a big tough team. As long as we got bigger at the wings we don't necessarily need huge centers.

He doesn't have an injury history to speak of. He was injured this year. Before that he consistently played 75-80 games a season for the last six years. Having an injury doesn't necessarily mean one has a "history" of injuries.

Nowhere in the article does it say anything about him wanting more money. It's just a fluff piece to fill the writer's quota for the day. Nothing was said that isn't already obviously true. Cleary played well and made a case for himself in the playoffs. Weak free agent class means he COULD make more if he wanted. Limited money and roster spots with Wings. Will Cleary take a discount? None of that is a revelation.

Weiss currently makes about 3.1 million. In his last four season (before this year's injury plagued go around) he scored 60, 60, 49, and 57 pts. He's also coming off three straight 20+ goals seasons as well. He'll get considerably more than 3.5, given that most people think Filppula will get around five and he doesn't have Weiss's stats. Plus, Weiss plays good defense, kills penalties, and plays on the PP. I don't think it's a stretch for him to get 5.5 in a bad UFA class (like this one). Hell Gabrovski and Hemsky make that and they don't have half the all around game that Weiss has.

No better way to develop young players than to force them to play against substandard goalies. Hurray for the CHL, now young canadian forwards can get used to scoring on the likes of Malcolm Subban and never know what it's like to play against a real goalie until they hit the AHL.

Hossa hasn't topped 29 since going to Chicago, and it's not like he's playing with garbage linemates. At least three guys he plays with are perennial all-stars, and their remaining top sixers (Bickell, Stalberg, Saad) are at least as good as Filppula, Bert, Cleary, Abby, if not better. So again, with all his natural ability and his superstar linemates why isn't he scoring at a much higher rate than Franzen? I'll tell you why, because Franzen isn't as bad as you make him out to be and Hossa isn't as good.

Nobody said Franzen was great...ever. Franzen is, however, our leading goal scorer just about every year and therefore shouldn't be traded for anyone like Shawn Horcroff. Especially when you consider we've already got problems in the goal scoring department.

Well I wouldn't say "perennial" considering he hasn't done it in five years, and has scored 40 only 3 times in his 15 year career. But I will agree that on average he scores more goals (slightly), but that still doesn't necessarily make him a better value. Franzen scores almost as much at this stage of his career, blocks more shots, hits more, takes more faceoffs and wins at a high percentage, shoots as often, and plays as many minutes. About the only thing Hossa does better (at this point in his career) is score slightly more and backcheck better. If you think that's worth the additional money then ok, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you think.

No I suggested it would be stupid to trade our leading scorer for Shawn Horcroff, which you had stated you'd be happy to do. Please stop misquoting me in an attempt to justify yourself post hoc. Also, again with the name calling. Isn't that supposed to be frowned upon around here (as well as in the better part of adult human society).

Why?

Haha, I have a feeling you could keep going with this all day long.

Vinny is a more likely buyout candidate, and I'd love to see that guy hit the market.

Yeah I watched these earlier this year, they were really interesting. I think the thing I liked the most was seeing just how hard these guys work in the off season. It's no wonder that Kindl put on like 15 lbs of muscle in the off season. Gives me a lot of hope for guys like Nyquist, Brunner, and Smith, who are all a bit skinny for their respective heights.

Good god. When you post saying "I'll never bring it up again if Franzen outscores Hossa or if the Wings win", you're bringing it up. Which you did, a few short weeks ago. Again, I don't "love" hockey players. I love my dog Oliver. The fact that you keep saying it, along with your litany of additional name calling, doesn't make it so. But I do appreciate the mature debate.

Nobody bashes Hossa. I never said Franzen was "great". I never said Franzen was a better player. You're the only one that says things like a player "is great" or he "sucks". And you brought up "the choice" during the Chicago series which wasn't exactly "a while" ago. It's impossible to discuss anything with someone who makes one gross exaggeration after the next and frequently puts words in people's mouths.

I agree that there probably won't be any HUGE signings, any serious changes are likely to come about via trade (if at all). But there really could be signings which have a big impact. Such as letting Filppula walk and signing Steven Weiss, who would cost about as much but scores more goals. The net effect would be roughly the same, except that we'd add another goal scoring threat to a team that desperately needs them. Ryder would do the same thing and wouldn't cost much as well. We wouldn't break the bank on them the way we would for Clarkson or Horton, but they'd probably help a ton.

Yeah, I don't really expect Smith, Nyquist, or Kindl to top 1.5 million. Brunner won't top 3, and Andersson won't top 1.2 million. The bigger concern is with the number of roster spots available which dwindles to nothing the second we resign our RFAs. Sammy is an ideal buyout candidate, Gustavsson will stay and probably be better than he was, and Tootoo doesn't cost much. However, resigning Val, Cleary, and Miller will be an issue unless someone else is moved out via trade or waivers, in which case I'd imagine Emmerton would be the guy to go via waivers and (maybe) Quincey or Carlo via trade.

You're right, he's got twenty points in 27 games. Obviously ten points over three years is the difference between a superstar and a loser who should be playing in Sweden right now. Also, nobody ever said Hossa sucks...ever. You're the guy who repeatedly says that Franzen sucks, in spite of all evidence to the contrary, and then calls everyone "slappies" or says we're in love with the guy when we suggest that maybe he's a much better hockey player than you make him out to be.

Yeah I guess that's true, he's a bit more like Helm with scoring ability than he is pesty like Marchand. Still, I think it's fair to call Helm a pest (between the whistles). I'd take it if that's how he pans out.

What a loser Franzen is, he should be more like your boy Hossa. That guy's a playoff monster. In his last 27 playoff games (three seasons) he's produced a whopping 11 points. Apparently the difference between a good player and bad player in your eyes is one assist. That's a pretty narrow margin of error for a guy who's supposedly giving Franzen a fair shake.

I wonder if Landon Ferraro has it in him to play like Marchand. From what I've seen, which is admittedly a small sample, they play a similar style of game.