kipwinger

I'm pretty surprised that Letang is quibbling about 500,000 dollars. He must really want out of Pittsburgh.

lol. Clarkson has scored more than 20 goals exactly once and never topped 50 points. Horton has scored more than 20 goals six times, and topped 50 points four times. I'll agree that he'll be cheaper and that he's likely tougher. But to suggest that he's as capable a point producer ignores the entirety of both their careers, and rests on the demonstrably false assumption that a 30 year old player is somehow going to develop offense he's never had up to that point in his career. If you believe that then I've got a 5 million dollar contract for Valtteri Filppula I'd love to have you sign. Clarkson had a good season last year. Nathan Horton has been scoring goals his entire career. No comparison.

For real, Bickell hasn't score more than 17 goals in any of his NHL seasons and Clarkson has had one and half good years. Sure they're both tough but to even consider paying them the kind of money they would make on the open market is insane for Detroit. Unless we want five million plus wrapped up in guys who can barely skate, are physically strong, and MAY contribute offensively. You know what's funny, even last year when Clarkson had his breakout 30 goal season he still only had 8 more points than Bertuzzi.

Right or he tries his patented coast to coast b.s. and some defenseman who can actually skate blows him up. Kronwall, Stevens, Konstantinov. They didn't have defensemen that open ice hit like that in Orr's day. Hence, he could skate around and make them look stupid.

Mlive wrote an article today about Joe McDonnell and his draft responsibilities. Not going to say he's diverging from past trends, but it certainly sounds promising. http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/06/red_wings_prefer_decent-sized.html

I can't believe how gaga everybody is going over Bickell and Clarkson. Half this forum goes into an uproar about Franzen, his contract, and how he hasn't played up to the level he was signed at. And now we're going to pay more for Bickell or Clarkson, who have a shorter period of goal scoring success? Horton is the only one with a track record for goal scoring, and he's going to make a fortune. Does the difference between wanting a guy and not wanting a guy really boil down being able to punch people once in a while?

Interesting tidbit. Jim Nill had nearly the final say in all draft related issues before he took his job in Dallas. Today I read that Joe McDonnell will be taking over those responsibilities as the new assistant general manager. It will be interesting to see whether there are any variations in the way that they draft this season. I don't think it will be major, as our draft philosophy isn't going to get flushed down the tube, but history has show a preference for versatile two-way centers and defensemen at the draft. Maybe McDonnell likes the wingers more? Who knows, but no matter how long he's apprenticed, he's bound to have his own ideas.

In his article today, John Niyo of the Detroit News suggested that the Wings should seriously consider trading any one of their young up and comers (not named Dekeyer). He listed Kindl and Smith by name and lumped all the young forwards as potentials as well. I don't want this thread to become a debate about the merits of Niyo's suggestion, but rather wanted to know who you'd all rather keep if it came down to trading Tatar or Nyquist. I think one of the two is likely on the way out for a couple reasons. They're stock is about as high as it's going to get. There's very little roster space as it is without adding anybody from outside the organization. Also it would be a bit redundant to have Tatar, Nyquist, AND Brunner on this team. That's a lot of small skilled euros on a team that keeps talking about getting bigger each year. My thoughts? Nyquist is undeniably talented and showed good chemistry and skill with Andersson and Brunner in the playoffs. However, Tatar had the better season in terms of point production, seems to attack the net more, and might have leap frogged Nyquist after his Calder Cup performance. Tough call, but I've got to say I'd rather keep Tatar. So, your thoughts?

So my question is, would any of you trade Brendan Smith plus whatever for that 5th overall pick so long as we kept our 18th as well?

Agreed, but the point of the thread was to determine who you would trade IF you had to, and why.

Who presents the trophies in every other major sport? I seriously don't know.

I'm down with this trade, but it only happens if Dave Dombrowski is given control of the Red Wings for an afternoon. Agreed, this proposal is pretty tongue in cheek. He made a trade and buyout thread so I just threw the first one up I could think of. I have no idea whether Wheeler is available or what it would take to get Weiss's rights. It's just for a laugh.

Sweet, trade Filppula's rights and whatever else to Winnepeg for Blake Wheeler's rights. Trade a conditional 4th to Florida for Weiss's rights. Bingo bango, got a big power winger and a center to replace Flip. Also, sweeten either pot with Tootoo, Colaiacovo, Eaves, or Emmerton as necessary.

I agree, he was better than any other defenseman in his era. He was the very first "offensive defenseman". That's the reason he scored so much...because he tried to do it. In those days all defensemen were stay-at-home. That's how they played the game. Bobby revolutionized that. HOWEVER, saying that he's the best of his age doesn't then also mean that he's the best ever. Bobby could never do that against today's competition because everybody does it now, and therefore teams plan for it. Lidstrom would score just as many points, no matter what era, because he scored them classically. Point shots and assists. He was just SUPER good at it. But technically speaking he didn't score in a different way than McInnis, Iafrate, etc. etc. etc. I compare the Bruins with Orr to Bill Walsh's 49ers and their "west coast offense". They tore it up because nobody had seen it or figured it out yet. However, eventually everybody caught up. So now, when a team running a west coast offense puts up gaudy numbers (though still less than the 49ers), it's actually more impressive because it's not succeeding because it's new, it's succeeding because it's executed well.

If Z or Dats were on the cusp of retiring I'd say keep Nyquist, but given that they'll be around a few years I say move him for a scorer or top flight defenseman.

Lidstrom, bar none. Orr didn't play defense. He had a good plus/minus because he put up a zillion points. Tighter defense and better goaltending would expose his "offensive prowess" and his defensive numbers would likewise suffer. Orr's over rated, Lids played in a time when scoring was harder, defensive assignments were tougher, and going "coast to coast" was almost unheard of. Even then he managed to win 7 Norris Trophies and and twice as many Stanley Cups and he was a factor in every one of them. Bobby was good, but score 150 going end to end against Weber, Suter, and Rinne. Not happening buddy.

If nothing else Tatar doesn't look like he's skating in sand, so that is a big difference.

Option 3: The only guy on our list that the team from last year would miss is Dekeyser. Everyone else either didn't play, didn't play much, or can be replaced by someone better in the pipeline.

Again, I wasn't trying to turn this thread into a "to trade or not to trade" but rather a "Nyquist vs. Tatar" if forced to trade, as the title suggests. I think we can all agree that in a perfect world we'd keep all our quality prospects and acquire every good free agent too. But it doesn't work that way. Sometimes you have to give to get and the point of this thread is that if you had to give one or the other, who would you pick, and why.

Dude if you're trying to argue that goalie equipment changed more in the last twenty years than it did in the twenty before that you're insane. You can't make the argument. Visual evidence abounds. Try as you might, you can't blame the increase in goalie equipment size on Bettman. It was a trend that was happening long before he came around. If you want, I'll look up some more goalies from 1973 but I'm fairly sure we all know how that's going to end. Give it up, Bettman didn't increase goalie pad size...it was already happening.

Oh here we go again. Here's three pictures, one from a goalie today (2013), the next from a goalie the year before Bettman took over (1992), and one from twenty years before that (1972). To me it seems like the size of goalie equipment has changed less in the last twenty years than it did in the twenty before that. So I'm guessing this argument of yours is simply another attempt to blame Gary Bettman for something that you don't happen to like, whether he's at fault or not.

Haha, I wondered why you posted that one twice. The thing I like about Tatar over Nyquist is that he seems more tenacious. He's always attacking the net. I worry that Nyquist is a little to passive in his overall approach, which is good for a playmaker, but not so great for a goal scorer. And I think that we need more goal scorers on this team.

Fair enough, I can respect that. I think we both agree though that it would have to be someone with that kind of talent level.

The thing I like about Yandle is that he's a top flight puck mover, signed to a reasonable contract for a few more years. You'd have him well through his prime, and by the time his contract is up your young d-men would be coming into their own. Let him walk after the contract, but realistically it's going to take any of Backman, Sproul, Ouellet, at least three years to develop fully (best case scenario) and you'd have Yandle there to act as a bridge during that time.

Ideally I'd trade them to a team looking to move some salary out, and even more ideally it would be for a young scorer or top pairing defenseman. Yandle or Bobby Ryan come to mind. I don't know if either are available, but they've been rumored to have been on the block in the past and even recently as well. Again, obviously rumors but that's what I'd be looking for. Bobby would score like gangbusters on our top line and would allow us to slot Franzen against second pairing d-men, thus exploiting that mismatch. And Yandle would seriously help our transition game which looked lackluster this year. I really think we need someone that can help transition from defense to offense a little more effectively. Those are just two names, but their could be more if I really dug into it.