kipwinger

Seconded.

Never heard of that myself. I'd be pretty skeptical.

You're definitely right on the first part, I had that lineup wrong. Thanks for the correction. As for the rest, I'm not necessarily sure that I need you to pontificate about handling adversity. I don't think a losing sports team is any "adversity" at all. It's a sport. I do, however, watch sports to see the team win championships, if I wanted to see a team compete moderately successfully just for the sake of participation, I'd go watch High School sports. We're talking about a professional sports team I pay good money to see win, there are no participation trophies. And when I see that team get further and further away from that goal with every passing season I begin to formulate theories to explain why. Furthermore, when the same things are (or in this case aren't) being done to address the problem year after year, it becomes pretty obvious what a big part of the problem is. Injuries are a form of adversity. Squandering talent and watching your team get less and less competitive is mismanagement. One I can deal with, the other irritates me.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't really think they were counting on him coming back, regardless of what they said. Remember this is the same management which said it was committed to a rebuild, but only after missing out on Jagr. Said that the last six games before the deadline would determine their activity level, and then balked after the team performed quite well. Said that they were only looking for high end talent, and then effectively ensured that wouldn't happen by taking their prospects and 1st round pick off the table. We can't really count on the fact that we're being told anything accurate these days. They're saying these things because it sounds a lot better than, "we're in trouble this season and we're not quite sure what to do to fix it". Perhaps in KH's mind paying lip service is a much better idea than telling everyone what they already know.

Yeah that's a good point, I hadn't thought about it. Either way I think he gets signed, and I think the eventual cap hit will be somewhere in the 4.5-4.75 million range. Which isn't bad considering his versatility and (sad as it is to say) value to a team which might very soon find itself with worse top six issues than it has now.

Best case scenario they extend Filppula and/or Jimmy for one year until the cap goes back up and then give them their paydays. But at this point you've pretty much got to re-sign Filppula no matter what. If our top six going into next season is any combination of the guys we've got right now, without Filppula, we're in real bad shape.

Trade Helm huh? The guy won't even trade a prospect or a pick, and he's going to trade Helm now? I don't see it.

I'm curious to see what he's able to do. I generally think shooters do better at crossing the pond than playmakers, so he should be ok there. But it's a faster game than it is there, and from what I hear he'll not the best skater in the world. It'll be fun to watch though.

Good call. During the lockout I had no skin in the game. I just wanted to watch hockey because baseball was about to be over and those are the only two sports I watch. I couldn't have cared less whether Bettman "won" or Fehr "won". I just wanted the product back and ran back with open arms when it finally was.

You don't need to explain. Your tongue in cheek comment was pretty clear to anybody who...nevermind. It was clear.

Pretty sure two of Filppula's goals are breakaways. Definitely one was, but I think he's got two.

That would be hilarious.

It is an interesting topic, but really what's the better offer is in the eye of the beholder. Hypothetically, we could have offered Nyquist AND Tatar but considering Calgary wanted/needed a goalie prospect (because of this Kipper debacle) they might have placed little or no value on two prospects who are nonetheless very good players. For instance, which is the better offer...Nyquist and Ferraro or Sproul and a 2nd? Depends on the needs of the team in question.

If the only two options you've got to fix a team that got massacred in the first round of the playoffs last year are a few aging vets who weren't all that good to begin with (Sammy, Colaiacovo, Tootoo) OR a bunch of kids with no real NHL experience, then I'd say you've f***ed up. Management keeps "doing all it can" to improve this team and that's the best it's got. Rookies or plugs? What the hell? Remember when we won the cup in 2008. Our third line was Hudler, Filppula, and Sammy. Back then Sammy was only a third line player making 1.2 million per season. Now at 36 years old he's a top sixer worth 3. In what universe? Similarly, back then young guys like Hudler and Filppula were expected to step into supplementary roles until they rounded out their game. Now, we need Nyquist or Tatar to be top sixers or else we have to use Cleary or Abby? Yes we miss Helm and Bert, but only one of those guys is a top six forward. The rest of the top two units are intact and they still can't buy a goal. Does Bert make that big of a difference, or where we expecting Helm to be an offensive dynamo this season? Mismanagement dudes. Plain and simple. Who cares about embarrassing? Since Holland is FINALLY suggesting that we're in a rebuild (only after missing out on Jagr I might add) we might as well think about the long term. And in the long term missing the playoffs and getting the higher pick is probably better than making it, losing early, and getting the 20th overall or whatever it would be. They don't play for bragging rights, they play to win the cup, and even if me make the playoffs we're likely not winning anything. Also, the fact that we're having this discussion is embarrassing no matter what happens with the playoffs.

When/where did he say this?

If he's bought out I'd expect Holland would make him a lowball offer, walk after someone signed for more, then give Sammy a contract extension.

I don't necessarily agree though. Semin was available, Wideman was in play early (rights traded I know), Carle was available. He didn't make an offer to any of those guys. By the time Suter and Parise made their decision we'd already signed Samuelsson, Tootoo, Gustavsson. That was his consolation prize. It was those guys, plus Suter and Parise, or those guys and nothing. That's a huge drop off. I'd have felt a lot better if we'd entered the Suter/Parise sweepstakes after trading for Wideman's rights and making a competitve offer for Semin. Then if we miss out we've still got decent talent coming in. Instead we miss out and have Sammy and Colaiacovo to look forward to.

Agreed, offer them one year deals and if they're not satisfied let them walk. There are worse tragedies, and guys like that aren't all that hard to replace. I can't understand Holland, he makes lowball offers for Pominville, Jagr, and Bouwmeester at the deadline and won't budge and inch. All of those guys are harder to find alternatives for than our old guys. Then when teams don't meet his price he's out the door. But then he'll turn around and give generous offers to guys who are much easier to replace without batting an eye.

I agree with what you're saying, but even if all of that is true, it's still poor management. 1) No way should Parise/Suter have been our only off season plan. You can't put all your eggs in that basket and then do nothing else when it doesn't work. 2) Holland has to come to terms with the fact that if you want to add a key piece via free agency or trade, you have to spend money. It's not an overpayment, it's the going rate for top talent. 3) The job of all the management staff is to evaluate any given situation and give the team options going forward. If they thought Semin was B rate then they need to be fired. They need to scout better or something, because I managed to figure out that Semin was the byproduct of a s***ty system in Washington. If I know it, they need to know it too. 4) A couple of cheap plugs, particularly at your depth positions (bottom six, bottom pair) isn't that big of a deal. But when you've got holes in the top six, and you lose three of four top defenders you can't replace them all with plugs or else all your key positions will be filled inadequately. For example: It's ok to plug the fourth line center with Emmerton, it's not ok to plug a top line winger with Samuelsson. 5) Finally, even if you are going to just plug holes, do it cheaply or don't do it. Holland hates to overpay for talent, but consistently overpays for plugs. It adds up. We spent roughly 12 million dollars last summer and have NOTHING to show for it. Plugging a hole with Eaves or Miller (close to league minimum when we signed them) is money well spent. Plugging holes with 2.5-3.5 million dollar contracts isn't really a good idea, especially if you've got a lot of holes. Management gets paid to scout, draft, develop, plan, acquire, trade, and sign the best team possible at any given time. It's a tough job, but they get paid the big bucks because they're supposedly up to it. They haven't been lately.

I completely agree with this. And I feel a lot of fans who are opposed to the salary cap would sing a different tune if they grew up in Calgary, Winnipeg, Nashville, etc. People make the baseball comparison all the time and I think it's a bad one. Look at teams like Kansas City or Minnesota who have good management, scout well, draft well, develop well, and then lose all their quality talent because they simply can't afford to spend like the Tigers, Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers, etc. It must suck to be a baseball fan in Minneapolis-St. Paul, and that's a real shame because they've got good fan support regardless of a systemic bias.

Based on what we have right now, I think our best case scenario looks like... Bert-Dats-Franzen Filppula-Helm-Zetterberg Brunner-Andersson-Nyquist/Tatar Tootoo-Abby-Miller Kronwall-Ericsson Kindl-Quincey Smith-Dekeyser/Lashoff

This is true, but the guys responsible for that production have moved on, retired, or are declining in production. We haven't developed a quality winger since Franzen. Haven't developed a top defenseman since Kronwall. Four of our current top sixers are centers, two of whom are playing out of position and were never scorers to begin with. We don't have the right people for the job, simple as that. Want a scoring winger? Draft and develop one, or trade for one. Don't try to make Flip or Abby something they aren't. It takes world class talent to be able to switch around like that. Hell even Ovechkin had a serious slump when he moved from left to right wing...and that's ******* Ovechkin (who scored twice more last night, officially proving everyone who said "he's been figured out", completely wrong). You can't just move these guys around willy nilly and expect a miracle. Well you can, but we've seen how that turns out.

Nobody thinks we're supposed to win it every single year. Where did you get that from? Seriously, show me anyone who thinks that we're supposed to win each year. Most of us are, however, concerned that we've trended downward for four years in a row and have done nothing substantial to stop it. We also are a little worried that in another two years our best player is likely headed to Russia and our remaining "best players" will all be in their mid thirties. Not even an acknowledgement from management that any of this is an issue. Three straight early playoff exists? No prob, we'll just keep trying with the same roster! We'll be active at the deadline if we do well over the next six games...just kidding, we'll do nothing! We're rebuilding...but only because our offer for Jagr didn't work about two hours ago. No straight answers, no accountability. Lots of b.s. from those responsible for this team, and not a lot of follow through. Just more of the same...if, if, if. All during the lockout I kept hearing about how the fans needed to hold team execs accountable. What about now? A team that's barely .500, can't score a goal to save it's life, sees it's playoff hopes dwindling with each garbage game, and doesn't do a single thing to help it...for four years! And many fans just keep giving them a pass. Rebuild, reload, whatever. Do something different. The same old thing hasn't worked in a long time now. We're not spoiled, we're frustrated. Borderline pissed off.

Yep, we're spoiled because we want our team to win and aren't pleased with subpar effort, arguable roster decisions, and management inaction. Good call. I'm a little tired of this "well you must not have been a fan during the Dead Wings era or you'd appreciate your team more" argument. Holy cow, you're an older fan and have seen worse teams? Obviously you must love the Wings more and therefore deserve to be condescending about it. We're not spoiled. We care as much as everyone else around here does. We just disagree with the current direction.

You walked in right in the middle of something you didn't see play out. I assume that's why you're acting so exasperated, or condescending, or whatever this is. The guy I was responding to took me out of context as well, I assume in an effort to be argumentative. Initially, I said that because an eighth seed won the Cup last year doesn't mean that if you "make the playoffs, anything can happen". It happened once...ever. So it really can't. Then that guy hit me with a bunch of stats about how low ranking teams make it to the Conference Finals all the time. Which is true...but in no way does that mean that "anything can happen". Those teams don't win the cup, so again, it can't. I don't know whether you agree with that or not, but I figured I'd clarify because it's obvious from you "sigh" that you're real butt hurt about something.