kipwinger

I've amended my previous post as you're correct on the ice time. However, if you think that he didn't play on the top lines at all you're diluting yourself. He did. And he certainly did more than Tatar has to this point.

Ok, he played with Miller and Abby more than Datyuk. However he still played with Dats, Z, and Franzen. Tatar doesn't play with Zetterberg, Franzen, or Datsyuk AT ALL and is producing at a better rate. Gustav didn't, regardless of who his linemates were.

I'll agree that his contract isn't that great, but he's not "wildly inconsistent". He's only ever missed 40 pts. twice in his career and has topped 50 in half of his seasons played. Also, you might want to check their stat lines considering they've got almost identical production over their careers. If Cole is inconsistent then Ryder is too. They both have identical .63 points per game totals, both have two 60+ point seasons, each have three 50+ point seasons, Cole has one more 40 point season, Ryder has one more 30 goals season but Cole has one more 20+ goal season, and they've got got respectable plus/minus. The only thing differentiating them is that Cole has more goals and assists (19 goals and 28 more assists) but he's played one more season so it stands to reason. Dallas may have got fleeced because they took on salary and lost a pick, but they didn't get fleeced because Cole is "inconsistent".

A significant portion of his games last year where on a line with Datsyuk when either Franzen or Bert were out of the lineup.

Dude, I just commented in another thread that Cole was my sleeper pick for the Wings. He's definitely a guy I would have loved to see in the Winged Wheel. Well both he and Ryder actually. That bums me out pretty bad.

Holland might well be doing stuff like this in the near future, but I'm pretty glad he didn't this time. Gagne has lost his legs and his game if a shadow of it's former self.

Just saw a comment from him over at HFboards yesterday and had a good belly laugh reading everyone else commenting on his irrational love of Hudler over there as well. Some things clearly never change.

Why? Because Tatar has more goals than Cleary while playing higher quality competition and Nyquist is the big bodied power guy that the line needs to dig the puck out of the corners, crash the net, and screen goalies?

Also, and I'm going to call this my "sleeper" pick, similar to Dabura's Blake Wheeler pick, but I wouldn't be opposed to trading for Erik Cole. Rumor has it Montreal is considering moving him, and if he could be had for one of our throwaway forwards/defensemen and a low pick (3rd or 4th) I'd be thrilled. Wouldn't overpay, but would love to see him in a Wings sweater. Always liked him. Edit: Nevermind.

I agree. You'd think Brunner would be enough, but apparently we need to have two or three new, young, stars before people are happy. Honestly I'd rather be winning, regardless of who's playing. And to do that we're going to need veterans to get healthy, and an upgrade on the top defensive pairing. What we definitely don't need is another small(ish) playmaking forward.

Trying to scratch and claw your way into a playoff spot is not the right time for a "trial period". When you're comfortably in the playoff mix and aren't getting the production you want out of one or two guys is when you should start getting experimental. Both Tatar and Nyquist will have good careers, but until Nyquist can center his own line, or find the back of the net consistently, I don't want him anywhere near our top six.

I agree, and that's why I think that Tatar should be with Datsyuk and either Cleary or Abby. Tatar likes to shoot, and has good finishing abilities.

From Sports Illustrated's website: Rumor: Panthers center Stephen Weiss could be put on the market in a matter of days. When that happens, Detroit will step to the front of the line. The read: So much for building on last season’s run to the playoffs. The Panthers are a point out of the Eastern cellar at 4-7-4 and allowing a league-worst 3.73 goals-against per game. With a tough skein ahead (Pens twice, Bruins and Flyers), the time to look ahead to next season is about to smack them in the face. The building blocks are in place for the future, but GM Dale Tallon might not see pending UFA Weiss as part of that picture. The former fourth overall pick (2001) has never fully delivered on his potential, so a change of scenery makes sense. Weiss could net the Panthers a mid-to-low first rounder and a solid prospect. The Wings could pull that off. Keep an eye on Jose Theodore, Florida’s other noteworthy UFA-to-be. Jakob Markstrom needs more ice time, so moving Theo makes sense. If the Bruins aren’t comfortable with Anton Khudobin as their backup heading into the postseason, Theodore might make sense in Boston.

There you go, on Datsyuk's wing he had 7 points, only one of which was a goal. That's the point I was trying to make, that even on Datsyuk's wing Nyquist is not likely to score a bunch of goals because goal scoring is not his thing, playmaking is. I wasn't trying to say that he isn't any good, I was just responding to GMR who suggested that Nyquist should be on Datsyuk's wing because Datsyuk doesn't score a lot of goals. My response: Neither does Nyquist. They're both pass first, playmakers.

Nyquist is not a true goal scorer either. He's a converted center who had 600% as many assists as he did goals with the Wings last season. And the one he did score was gift wrapped from Pavel. I don't know how much you've seen him play, but if you think that Nyquist is going to be some kind of finisher with Pavel as the playmaker I'd recommend you check him out a little more, that's just not his game. An "ideal" line based on our current roster would be Pavel, Brunner, and Franzen as they are the best player maker, shooter, and power forwards that we currently have signed.

In 18 games, many of those on Pavel's wing, Nyquist scored exactly ONE goal. This guy is not an NHL caliber winger yet. Also, Abby is on Pavel's wing because with all the injuries Babs wanted a big body on the top line to dig out pucks, drive the net, screen the goalie, and generally do what big bodied forwards do. He's not there to score a bunch of goals, he's there to make space for Pav. Nyquist would do jack s*** on Pav's wing, if you want to see youth on his wing promote Tatar to that spot, he actually finds the back of the net once in a blue moon (at the NHL level).

The 8th seed won the Stanley Cup last season.

Yes to Backes, no to Clowe. Backes gets penalized for being too brutal. Clowe gets penalized for being too stupid. Clowe is Keith Tkackuk without the scoring.

Clowe is such a stupid piece of trash. Remember against the Kings when he played the puck from the bench to break up a rush on the King's power play. Classless piece of garbage!

I see your point and I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't think a rebuild is necessary right now because we've essentially already done it. It's just that all the guys we've got to show for it are a few years away still. Jurco, Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Sproul, Quellet, Frk, ARE the rebuild, but they aren't ready for at least two more years. In the mean time, our core has a couple three years of competitive hockey from the core that I don't think should be squandered by doing nothing. Trading Nyquist, Tatar, or both and a few picks would significantly help this team now and for the next 2-3 seasons, and not really mortage the future considering the future is in the guys I've already mentioned. Nyquist and a 1st would go a long way toward landing a guy like Bogosian for instance, and Tatar and a third would make you competitive for Stephen Weiss. It would take considerable less than that to land Regehr and Blake Wheeler, both of whom are UFA's next year and would help this year. Then restock the picks you lose by trading as many of our extra (read: throw away) roster players as you want.

I agree, doing nothing is bad, but I'd take it a step further and say rebuilding is bad too. If you go into full rebuild mode, then you're 2-3 years (at least) away from being competitive again. In 2-3 years Datsyuk will likely be gone, Z will be Datsyuk's age, Franzen will be over the hill, as will Kronwall. In the time it takes to rebuild, the core that you'd be rebuilding on will be crumbling. I think it's better to win now while we've still got the talent to do it.

Haha, I don't think he'd cost too much. They've got 8 defensemen, Volchenkov is currently playing on the third pair, with Tallinder easily capable of playing his minutes...and much more cheaply I might add. I think they'd be willing to move A-Train just to get that 4.5 million dollar cap hit off their third pair. But obviously he'd be harder to land than Regehr or the others I mentioned. Still think it could be done for a decent prospect and our 2nd.

I don't think we are "a long way off from being a legit contender". We compete very well 5-5, we've played good teams closely this season when we've had a (nearly) healthy roster, and we've had solid goaltending (regardless of what the Howard scapegoaters say). We need defense badly. Specifically top minute stay at home defenders (which Holland has confirmed in interviews). Those aren't that expensive. We got Stuart for a 2nd and a 4th. As I've been saying all long, insert a quality shutdown defender alongside Kronwall, move Ericsson to the 2nd pair with Smith, and use whoever (White/Lashoff, Quincey/Colaiacovo, Kindl/Huskins) as the third pair and our defense is noticeably better in all facets of the game. In other threads I've mentioned Regehr, Volchenkov, Mark Stuart, Henrik Tallinder as guys who could be had relatively cheaply and who could fill the role I'm talking about but I'm sure there are others I'm not thinking of. A healthy lineup and a solidified defense makes our team a contender, mark my words. Edit: Adding Ladislav Smid to the list of guys I'd like as well.

Honestly, getting "a guy like Darren Helm back" will help a ton. Unfortunately, we still have a horrible defense. One dimensional players who aren't even particularly good at the that one dimension. White, Kronwall, Quincey, Colaiacovo, and Kindl, puck movers who are only average at moving the puck. Ericsson, Lashoff, and Huskins, shutdown guys who are only average at shutting down forwards. Need to trade for a better defense, and let the forwards improve as injured players return.

Yes.