kipwinger

I'm all for the whistles. Yeah they're a little annoying, but at the same time anything that gets fans into the game I generally support. So whatever, if the whistle creates a more festive atmosphere then by all means lets do it. And let's be honest, Wings fans have been watching the team win for so long that they've become fairly stoic anyway, might as well do something to lighten up.

They're the same person. Many people feel that Sammy is a logo hunter.

I love Pietrangelo, but as other have said, it's not going to happen. He'll get shielded, or they'll match any offer sheet. And even if they didn't it wouldn't matter because Kenny doesn't tender offer sheets. It's a nice dream to have, but in the end it's just that.

Again, I don't see why people say Franzen is the closest thing we have to a sniper, most of his goals come from high traffic areas and down around the crease. The closest thing we have to a sniper is Zetterberg, who loves to shoot and typically scores from the perimeter. When Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together, Datsyuk carried the puck, drew the coverage, and set up Zetterberg for the finish. That's why Zetterberg scored way more often back then (and not coincidentally, why Datsyuk had more assists back then). But they still needed a guy to bang in the dirty goals, which is what Holmstrom did. Obviously Zetterberg can do more than just shoot, but on a team of limited "pure shooters" he's the closest thing we've got to one. Not Franzen. Now hopefully Brunner will be that, since all that guy does is shoot. And if you watch most of his highlights with Zetterberg you'll notice that Z carries the puck, draws the coverage, finds Brunner in open areas, and Brunner finishes. Just like is should be.

Why are you still comparing Hossa and Franzen? Because they were both on the same team at the same time and because they were both free agents at the same time? They are not the same type of player and never have been. It's like comparing Lecavalier and Stamkos. If those two were free agents at the same time, and Tampa kept Stamkos and let Lecavalier walk, nobody would say that they kept Stamkos to be Tampa's new power forward. Also, Datsyuk and Malkin play the same position, and are both much more dangerous with the puck than without it. They both can't have it at once. I agree that the Wings need more shooters, but arguing that they should acquire a shooter by losing a power forward creates one hole while replacing another. Now if you were to say "move Franzen and player X for Backes or Lucic" or someone like that, I would entertain your thoughts, because they are similar style players with varying degrees of success. But at the end of the day, if you have a line which consists of a shooter-playmaker-shooter, or playmaker-playmaker-power forward, or power forward-playmaker-power forward, then you've got too many people on one line that do the same things. Power forward-Playmaker-Shooter is the way to go. If you had a line of Datsyuk, Radim Vrbata, and Franzen it would decimate this league and wouldn't require an all star like Hossa or Kovalchuk either.

In the 2008-2009 season in which Datsyuk scored 97 pts., Marian Hossa (all-star winger and actual sniper) only scored 63 pts. I don't know where this idea that Datsyuk can make some wingers into supermen comes from, I mean even Datsyuk's production is waning, so the likelihood that just playing on his line is enough to turn a good winger into a league leader is silly. Crosby is one of the best centers in the game and his play doesn't turn wingers into 80-100 pt. guys.

I agree. Barring injuries Nyquist will either compete for a top six spot or else stay in the AHL another year. Also, and I know a lot of people won't like this much, I don't think it's too out of left field to think he may get traded if he comes up and plays pretty well off and on this season. The guy is a great talent, but I'm not really sure what separates him from the pack of Flip, Z, and Pav in terms of what he can do on the ice. If those guys are all going to be around a few more years then why not pump his numbers up a little bit and trade him in a package for a top flight d-man or scoring winger? Of course if Brunner is a bust then that obviously isn't an option.

I agree, I'm not saying he's a great one. But that's the style of game he plays. Maybe a comparison to Mats Sundin's style of play is more comparable. Either way, he's no sniper and nobody every expected that out of him aside from some errant fans.

He was not chosen over Hossa "to be our sniper". He was chosen over Hossa because at that point in their careers Franzen provided similar production for less money. Also because the Wings are typically loyal to those who perform well for them, which up to that point Franzen has. Again, you keep suggesting that the team expected him to be a sniper when the only person who feels that way is you. Right, the most successful coach since the lockout should take pointers from you, good call.

Here's Babcock talking about Bertuzzi's work ethic...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/02/red_wings_happy_with_todd_bert.html Here's Lidstrom...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_todd_bertuzzi_contin.html Here's Ansar Khan...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/11/red_wings_scouting_report_miss.html Babcock again...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_todd_bertuzzi_game-w.html Babcock again...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/11/forward_todd_bertuzzi_looking.html Babcock and Brad Stuart...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/11/todd_bertuzzis_emphasis_on_def.html Where's the link that suggests he's a loafer again? Or is this some sort of unsubstantiated opinion of yours? If Babcock was being nice where are the articles where he (out of the kindness of his heart) goes on at length about how hard Franzen works? Two years ago, at 38 years old, and despite a waning skill set, Tomas Holmstrom scored 18 goals. Obviously old guys can still produce in the right roles. However, as I said, when Bert is on a line with Franzen who plays the exact same game, his points are going to suffer. Nobody ever said Franzen was a sniper. He scores most of his goals around the crease and in high traffic areas, and always has. Steven Stamkos is a sniper, Franzen is a "power" forward. The only person who seems to hold his "not being a sniper" against him is you. That said, I agree that he doesn't work very hard. Edit: 50 pts. in 48-50 games huh? Nobody on our team, including Dats and Z are a point per game player at this point. If that's your standard for success then almost everyone in the league is a failure.

Are there lots of guys on our roster, or in the league for that matter, who have the same size as Bert with more talent and work ethic? As a matter of fact where does this belief that he's not talented or doesn't work hard come from? I can recall multiple interviews in which Babcock lauds Bertuzzi's work ethic.

So who would you replace him with? Also, perhaps he didn't score more because he played the majority of the season on a line with Frazen, who plays the exact same game as Bert, only younger. As I've previously stated, if you have two guys on a line that play the same game, one of them will suffer.

Samuelsson A: No, the NTC makes it a bad contract, otherwise yes. B: Helm's, The other two lines have guys who like to shoot from the perimeter (Brunner and Zetterberg). C: No, every scoring line needs a guy who likes to shoot. D: Yes, he's done it before and we don't have anyone else Helm A: Yes, he's a thief's bargain for his intangibles B: No, PP's are about scoring, Helm can't score. C: Not much, if any. Maybe more assists with the right wingers. D: No, Filppula or Franzen is. White: A: He'll get a contract similar to Ericsson's, but I don't think we'll resign him. B: No, we need a more diversified defensive corps C: Yes, but not as well (nobody can). D: No, his play will force that. They'll give him a lowball offer and be o.k. with him signing somewhere else for more, a la Hudler.

Why the Bertuzzi hate? Were his 38 pts. not impressive enough? He's a complimentary piece, with size, soft hands, and ability to cycle down low. Paired with the right linemates he's still a very effective player. Especially considering he's the only forward we have with any size who is strong on the puck and hard to take it away from. How do you justify putting him on a checking line at 38 years old and without good speed to begin with? Might as well not even play him if that's the plan, and presumably replace him with who? A small skilled forward? Sheahan? There's nobody else.

I agree, Datsyuk makes everyone look better. But it's about maximizing effectiveness. Ideally you don't want two guys on the same line that do the same thing. When I think about really good line combos I think about Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan...or Dats, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom. A playmaker, a shooter, and a crease guy. Now I wouldn't be opposed to having Dats play with Brunner, and Nyquist with Zetterberg, in each case you'd have a playmaker and a guy who likes to shoot, then fill in the third with whomever. But putting Nyquist with Dats is like putting Crosby with Malkin. Only one of them can be a wizard with the puck at any given time. You need guys that play well away from the puck to compliment these types of players. Edit: Now that I think about it, we've seen what Brunner does with Zetterberg and it's been awesome, but there's every reason to believe that he'll be twice as slick with Datsyuk. I'll be really interested to see what those two will do together given the chance. So here goes... Brunner-Datsyuk-Franzen Flip-Zetterberg-Bert/Cleary Sammy-Helm-Bert/Cleary Tootoo-Abby-Miller/Eaves/etc. I like the look of these.

I really don't understand why everyone is so interested in seeing Datsyuk and Nyquist together. Both are playmakers who need the puck on their stick to be effective. Both provide MANY more assists than they do goals. Neither are overly large and generally play on the perimeter. It's no secret that Datsyuk's best seasons came on a line with Zetterberg who loves to shoot. It doesn't do either of them any good to stickhandle around and create space only to pass to someone who doesn't want to shoot. I really like Nyquist, and obviously Datsyuk is a king, but putting them together just reinforces what many around here have recognized as a problem for a while...too many playmakers and not enough finishers. Both Dats and Nyquist need shooters to really maximize their potential, putting them together is a waste. I understand why people want to see Nyquist in the top six, and he will be soon, but barring injury he's better left in the AHL for this season.

I'm short changing him this first year because there will do doubt be an adjustment period. I'd expect quite a lot more next season for sure.

Barring injuries Gustav Nyquist is probably not going to be playing regularly in the top six on this team this season. Hate to break it to you fellas.

Sammy-Dats-Franzen Flip-Z-Brunner/Nyquist Bert-Helm-Cleary Tootoo-Abby-Miller Kronwall-White Quincey-Ericsson Smith-Colaiacovo Kindl

I understand your concerns, and they no doubt are legitimate. But I've been watching this guy play, and while the rink size, goalies, and defense are different in the NHL, Brunner's speed and shot are still top rate. This guy can pick corners, skate like the wind, and isn't afraid to go into tough areas. His skill set is MUCH closer to Briere than to Hudler. I honestly think he'll exceed every expectation. My prediction: 40 games, 12 goals and 25 pts.

Helen St. James reported today that both Flip and Colaiacovo will be ready to go when the season begins. And the season will begin. AND I'M SERIOUSLY PUMPED ALREADY! Welcome back NHL, I know one fan for sure who won't be boycotting a single thing.

I like the Wings coming into this season. Dats, Z, Brunner, Flip, Smith, Nyquist, Colaiacovo, have all been playing hockey. The defense might be a little rusty, but that will be the same for about every team. I'm most worried about the goalies though, and again, that's probably the same for everyone. I'm so ******* excited to be watching hockey again soon!

Not in Detroit he wouldn't Can we please not make this into another "fire Bettman" vs. "fire Fehr" thread. I'm already pretty tired today and don't think I can handle all the excitement.

I'm not sure some of you guys are aware that those long term deals that were signed by younger players don't actually mean the team has to pay those guys until their mid forties. Once they retired those contracts are off the books. And since most guys don't play that long, their contracts aren't likely to be a big issue. Erhoff, Carter, Franzen, come to mind. All good contracts for their production, and none of them are likely to play until the end of the contract itself.

Both Parise and Suter are overrated as we'll (hopefully) see very soon.