kipwinger

To me this whole conversation reminds me of something I used to hear when I lived out East. "Ask a pink hat" was a segment on Boston's sports radio in which EXTREMELY self righteous Red Sox fans made fun of girls who came to the games but didn't know anything about baseball. On the surface it was kind of funny, but I could never help thinking about how the two overweight, middle aged, talk show hosts would gladly exchange their press passes or season tickets for one night with the "pink hats". Here's a link to the "pink hat" segment. Listen to it, it's fairly humorous, but take it with a grain of salt. I'd gladly wager my paycheck that most of these "true fans" do something equally superficial on a daily basis if anyone were to hold them under the same sort of microscope.

Link?

I've consistently hated the Lions for as long as I can remember. Hence, I don't watch any football ever. Not sure what that makes me, but I certainly didn't tune in last season when they looked impressive. That said, I did have partial season tickets the year the Tigers set the record for most losses. Ugh.

I agree with both of you, and I'd add that in all honesty, we're still not sure exactly what we'll be getting with Nyquist. As a fan of the Wings and a guy who watches every game, there's no denying the skill level and potential that Nyquist has, but he's still a little way off from being a regular contributor on this team. There's so much more to hockey than skill level. Playing smart, and playing responsibly, are often overlooked parts of success at this level. I was as dazzled as everyone else by Nyquist's puckhandling and skating, but when I view the guy objectively I have to admit that most of the 7 pts. the guy put up last year were the result of excellent linemates, not because he was making plays happen on his own. He scored less frequently (with Datsyuk and Franzen as help) than Smith did, and Smith was on the bottom pair. If you project Nyquist's totals for a whole season (temporarily ignoring the fact that he probably won't play 82 games and is likely to go through lengthy scoring droughts) he still would only have put up around 25-30 pts. Cleary did that on one leg last season, and didn't have Datyuk or Franzen to pad his stats either. Veterans know the game and know how to create chances for their linemates. Unless your rookie is RNH or Logan Couture or some freak like that, it's better to ease him in.

No.

Well I think there's some in every successful fan base. I don't think we're any better or worse. However, if my time here at LGW has taught me anything it's that there's more of it than you think. Just wait until we lose a few too many games in a row this season and watch how many people either swear on our impending doom, or else swear off the team entirely only to turn around on the next hot streak and talk up the organization. It happens, but again, probably no more than anywhere else.

There's a tendency to want to downplay how good some veterans are, mostly because as fans we like things that are new and exciting. But guys like Sammy, Cleary, Bert, etc. have been playing (and thriving) in this league a long time, and will be HUGE contributors over the course of this season. If watching Red Wings hockey over all these years has taught me anything it's that smart, hard working veterans are almost always a better option than rookies when you need to give responsibility to someone. Let Nyquist work his way into the NHL game by filling in during injuries and starting out on the third line. It will serve him, and the team, better in the long run.

The only season in which Franzen has missed significant time with injuries is the one in which he tore his ACL. Outside of that (obviously serious injury) his games played per season is roughly in line with Datsyuk or Zetterberg...that is, mid seventies typically. However, I agree that he's the perfect successor for Holmer's old job, but mostly because he scores more frequently when doing it.

And just to really drive the point home, here's two more hat tricks from Franzen. 6 goals: 5 dirty ones, 1 "snipe".

Ok I'm going to play a thought experiment. Do you think (like everyone else does) that the 2008 playoffs were the best stretch of games that Franzen ever played? And if you do, I want you to count the number of "snipes from the circles" he had during that stretch. Then count the number of times he scored deflecting pucks, driving the net, or scoring in the lane (e.g. where power forward score). Here's the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n18fsFOhUc For the millionth time, Franzen is at this best when he plays in the crease. Take him out of there and he's less effective, but you're insane if you think he is too timid to be successful there. As a matter of fact, if you look at his playoff goals and his hat tricks you have to conclude that he's MOST SUCCESSFUL when playing there. Note: For those who don't feel like watching the video: Of his 13 goals, 12 were deflections, drives, or rebound goals. 1 was a "Snipe". Or then there's this one...5 goals in one game...1 "snipe".

No s***, but we do have Franzen, Bertuzzi, and Cleary and none of those guys minds going to the front of the net to screen a goalie. Pav, Z, and Brunner will do fine during the regular season, just like Z, Hudler, and Flip did last season. But when the games become tighter and the defense is better (playoffs) they'll struggle. Fortunately we've got more options that this.

I always liked the teams that Burke put together. Vancouver was a solid mix of size and skill, as was Anaheim, as was the 2010 Olympic team. Obviously that didn't happen in Toronto but I have to wonder how much control Burke really had relative to other GMs. I mean, Toronto has a long history of internal power struggles, and resultant s***ty teams. I wouldn't blame too much of that on Burke.

I don't really like the top line. There's no net front presence on that line and because of that, I think that the they will largely be forced to play on the perimeter, which as we saw against Nashville doesn't lead to much success. In today's game you have to have someone who can play in the crease and that's not Pav, Z, Nyquist, or Brunner's game.

Well we can stop speculating. Helen St. James reporting on the initial lines for the Wings going into camp... http://www.freep.com/article/20130109/SPORTS05/301090102/1053/rss17 Edit: Haha, didn't realize someone else beat me to it.

It'd be a real shame if Kovalchuk went to another league to under perform rather than not living up to his contract here in the NHL. Boo hoo.

First of all, that song is not even made by a Michigan band. If our anthem was Alice Cooper, Iggy and the Stooges, or the Nuge then maybe I'd be with you on that one. But Journey? f*** Journey! In all seriousness, I'm not saying we have bad fans, but I am saying it takes quite a lot to get them rowdy. I've been to far too many games where a goal is scored and nobody gets out of their seats. It's just a very matter of fact applause and on to the next one. Nothing wrong with it, but I have to admit I like watching games where the fans are in a fever you know? I used to live in DC, and while the Caps sucked balls, it was fun as hell to watch a game because the fans were going nuts. A little of that wouldn't hurt. For the record, Iggy Pop's "Search and Destroy" should be the Red Wings' song. That's pure Michigan and pure badass!

I'm all for the whistles. Yeah they're a little annoying, but at the same time anything that gets fans into the game I generally support. So whatever, if the whistle creates a more festive atmosphere then by all means lets do it. And let's be honest, Wings fans have been watching the team win for so long that they've become fairly stoic anyway, might as well do something to lighten up.

They're the same person. Many people feel that Sammy is a logo hunter.

I love Pietrangelo, but as other have said, it's not going to happen. He'll get shielded, or they'll match any offer sheet. And even if they didn't it wouldn't matter because Kenny doesn't tender offer sheets. It's a nice dream to have, but in the end it's just that.

Again, I don't see why people say Franzen is the closest thing we have to a sniper, most of his goals come from high traffic areas and down around the crease. The closest thing we have to a sniper is Zetterberg, who loves to shoot and typically scores from the perimeter. When Datsyuk and Zetterberg played together, Datsyuk carried the puck, drew the coverage, and set up Zetterberg for the finish. That's why Zetterberg scored way more often back then (and not coincidentally, why Datsyuk had more assists back then). But they still needed a guy to bang in the dirty goals, which is what Holmstrom did. Obviously Zetterberg can do more than just shoot, but on a team of limited "pure shooters" he's the closest thing we've got to one. Not Franzen. Now hopefully Brunner will be that, since all that guy does is shoot. And if you watch most of his highlights with Zetterberg you'll notice that Z carries the puck, draws the coverage, finds Brunner in open areas, and Brunner finishes. Just like is should be.

Why are you still comparing Hossa and Franzen? Because they were both on the same team at the same time and because they were both free agents at the same time? They are not the same type of player and never have been. It's like comparing Lecavalier and Stamkos. If those two were free agents at the same time, and Tampa kept Stamkos and let Lecavalier walk, nobody would say that they kept Stamkos to be Tampa's new power forward. Also, Datsyuk and Malkin play the same position, and are both much more dangerous with the puck than without it. They both can't have it at once. I agree that the Wings need more shooters, but arguing that they should acquire a shooter by losing a power forward creates one hole while replacing another. Now if you were to say "move Franzen and player X for Backes or Lucic" or someone like that, I would entertain your thoughts, because they are similar style players with varying degrees of success. But at the end of the day, if you have a line which consists of a shooter-playmaker-shooter, or playmaker-playmaker-power forward, or power forward-playmaker-power forward, then you've got too many people on one line that do the same things. Power forward-Playmaker-Shooter is the way to go. If you had a line of Datsyuk, Radim Vrbata, and Franzen it would decimate this league and wouldn't require an all star like Hossa or Kovalchuk either.

In the 2008-2009 season in which Datsyuk scored 97 pts., Marian Hossa (all-star winger and actual sniper) only scored 63 pts. I don't know where this idea that Datsyuk can make some wingers into supermen comes from, I mean even Datsyuk's production is waning, so the likelihood that just playing on his line is enough to turn a good winger into a league leader is silly. Crosby is one of the best centers in the game and his play doesn't turn wingers into 80-100 pt. guys.

I agree. Barring injuries Nyquist will either compete for a top six spot or else stay in the AHL another year. Also, and I know a lot of people won't like this much, I don't think it's too out of left field to think he may get traded if he comes up and plays pretty well off and on this season. The guy is a great talent, but I'm not really sure what separates him from the pack of Flip, Z, and Pav in terms of what he can do on the ice. If those guys are all going to be around a few more years then why not pump his numbers up a little bit and trade him in a package for a top flight d-man or scoring winger? Of course if Brunner is a bust then that obviously isn't an option.

I agree, I'm not saying he's a great one. But that's the style of game he plays. Maybe a comparison to Mats Sundin's style of play is more comparable. Either way, he's no sniper and nobody every expected that out of him aside from some errant fans.

He was not chosen over Hossa "to be our sniper". He was chosen over Hossa because at that point in their careers Franzen provided similar production for less money. Also because the Wings are typically loyal to those who perform well for them, which up to that point Franzen has. Again, you keep suggesting that the team expected him to be a sniper when the only person who feels that way is you. Right, the most successful coach since the lockout should take pointers from you, good call.