kipwinger

Here's Babcock talking about Bertuzzi's work ethic...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/02/red_wings_happy_with_todd_bert.html Here's Lidstrom...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_todd_bertuzzi_contin.html Here's Ansar Khan...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/11/red_wings_scouting_report_miss.html Babcock again...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_todd_bertuzzi_game-w.html Babcock again...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2009/11/forward_todd_bertuzzi_looking.html Babcock and Brad Stuart...http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/11/todd_bertuzzis_emphasis_on_def.html Where's the link that suggests he's a loafer again? Or is this some sort of unsubstantiated opinion of yours? If Babcock was being nice where are the articles where he (out of the kindness of his heart) goes on at length about how hard Franzen works? Two years ago, at 38 years old, and despite a waning skill set, Tomas Holmstrom scored 18 goals. Obviously old guys can still produce in the right roles. However, as I said, when Bert is on a line with Franzen who plays the exact same game, his points are going to suffer. Nobody ever said Franzen was a sniper. He scores most of his goals around the crease and in high traffic areas, and always has. Steven Stamkos is a sniper, Franzen is a "power" forward. The only person who seems to hold his "not being a sniper" against him is you. That said, I agree that he doesn't work very hard. Edit: 50 pts. in 48-50 games huh? Nobody on our team, including Dats and Z are a point per game player at this point. If that's your standard for success then almost everyone in the league is a failure.

Are there lots of guys on our roster, or in the league for that matter, who have the same size as Bert with more talent and work ethic? As a matter of fact where does this belief that he's not talented or doesn't work hard come from? I can recall multiple interviews in which Babcock lauds Bertuzzi's work ethic.

So who would you replace him with? Also, perhaps he didn't score more because he played the majority of the season on a line with Frazen, who plays the exact same game as Bert, only younger. As I've previously stated, if you have two guys on a line that play the same game, one of them will suffer.

Samuelsson A: No, the NTC makes it a bad contract, otherwise yes. B: Helm's, The other two lines have guys who like to shoot from the perimeter (Brunner and Zetterberg). C: No, every scoring line needs a guy who likes to shoot. D: Yes, he's done it before and we don't have anyone else Helm A: Yes, he's a thief's bargain for his intangibles B: No, PP's are about scoring, Helm can't score. C: Not much, if any. Maybe more assists with the right wingers. D: No, Filppula or Franzen is. White: A: He'll get a contract similar to Ericsson's, but I don't think we'll resign him. B: No, we need a more diversified defensive corps C: Yes, but not as well (nobody can). D: No, his play will force that. They'll give him a lowball offer and be o.k. with him signing somewhere else for more, a la Hudler.

Why the Bertuzzi hate? Were his 38 pts. not impressive enough? He's a complimentary piece, with size, soft hands, and ability to cycle down low. Paired with the right linemates he's still a very effective player. Especially considering he's the only forward we have with any size who is strong on the puck and hard to take it away from. How do you justify putting him on a checking line at 38 years old and without good speed to begin with? Might as well not even play him if that's the plan, and presumably replace him with who? A small skilled forward? Sheahan? There's nobody else.

I agree, Datsyuk makes everyone look better. But it's about maximizing effectiveness. Ideally you don't want two guys on the same line that do the same thing. When I think about really good line combos I think about Getzlaf, Perry, and Ryan...or Dats, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom. A playmaker, a shooter, and a crease guy. Now I wouldn't be opposed to having Dats play with Brunner, and Nyquist with Zetterberg, in each case you'd have a playmaker and a guy who likes to shoot, then fill in the third with whomever. But putting Nyquist with Dats is like putting Crosby with Malkin. Only one of them can be a wizard with the puck at any given time. You need guys that play well away from the puck to compliment these types of players. Edit: Now that I think about it, we've seen what Brunner does with Zetterberg and it's been awesome, but there's every reason to believe that he'll be twice as slick with Datsyuk. I'll be really interested to see what those two will do together given the chance. So here goes... Brunner-Datsyuk-Franzen Flip-Zetterberg-Bert/Cleary Sammy-Helm-Bert/Cleary Tootoo-Abby-Miller/Eaves/etc. I like the look of these.

I really don't understand why everyone is so interested in seeing Datsyuk and Nyquist together. Both are playmakers who need the puck on their stick to be effective. Both provide MANY more assists than they do goals. Neither are overly large and generally play on the perimeter. It's no secret that Datsyuk's best seasons came on a line with Zetterberg who loves to shoot. It doesn't do either of them any good to stickhandle around and create space only to pass to someone who doesn't want to shoot. I really like Nyquist, and obviously Datsyuk is a king, but putting them together just reinforces what many around here have recognized as a problem for a while...too many playmakers and not enough finishers. Both Dats and Nyquist need shooters to really maximize their potential, putting them together is a waste. I understand why people want to see Nyquist in the top six, and he will be soon, but barring injury he's better left in the AHL for this season.

I'm short changing him this first year because there will do doubt be an adjustment period. I'd expect quite a lot more next season for sure.

Barring injuries Gustav Nyquist is probably not going to be playing regularly in the top six on this team this season. Hate to break it to you fellas.

Sammy-Dats-Franzen Flip-Z-Brunner/Nyquist Bert-Helm-Cleary Tootoo-Abby-Miller Kronwall-White Quincey-Ericsson Smith-Colaiacovo Kindl

I understand your concerns, and they no doubt are legitimate. But I've been watching this guy play, and while the rink size, goalies, and defense are different in the NHL, Brunner's speed and shot are still top rate. This guy can pick corners, skate like the wind, and isn't afraid to go into tough areas. His skill set is MUCH closer to Briere than to Hudler. I honestly think he'll exceed every expectation. My prediction: 40 games, 12 goals and 25 pts.

Helen St. James reported today that both Flip and Colaiacovo will be ready to go when the season begins. And the season will begin. AND I'M SERIOUSLY PUMPED ALREADY! Welcome back NHL, I know one fan for sure who won't be boycotting a single thing.

I like the Wings coming into this season. Dats, Z, Brunner, Flip, Smith, Nyquist, Colaiacovo, have all been playing hockey. The defense might be a little rusty, but that will be the same for about every team. I'm most worried about the goalies though, and again, that's probably the same for everyone. I'm so ******* excited to be watching hockey again soon!

Not in Detroit he wouldn't Can we please not make this into another "fire Bettman" vs. "fire Fehr" thread. I'm already pretty tired today and don't think I can handle all the excitement.

I'm not sure some of you guys are aware that those long term deals that were signed by younger players don't actually mean the team has to pay those guys until their mid forties. Once they retired those contracts are off the books. And since most guys don't play that long, their contracts aren't likely to be a big issue. Erhoff, Carter, Franzen, come to mind. All good contracts for their production, and none of them are likely to play until the end of the contract itself.

Both Parise and Suter are overrated as we'll (hopefully) see very soon.

What affect do you guys think these compliance buyouts and the cap reduction will have on free agent signings and trades? Obviously the teams well below the cap will be able to pick up some better players in theory, but given their own personal financial situations it seems unlikely that any will be big spenders. Additionally, all the other teams who are tight against the cap will likely make few or no moves. This could have a serious downward impact on free agent contracts for a couple of years at least.

I don't think anybody ever criticized Omark based on his skill set, I think it was more about his attitude. He did a lot of s***ty things in Edmonton including refusing to play in the AHL, requesting a trade via twitter, etc. The guy is clearly skilled, but on most NHL teams if you don't pay your dues then you don't amount to s***. Washington and other teams don't necessarily have that rule, and fat lot of good it's done them.

Look at the date on the document, it's 2009. Obviously after the last lockout. Can we get a ruling on this by the mods. This guy keeps claiming things are "facts" and then when confronted by obvious proof that he's wrong he keeps arguing. I know it's hockey related, but when a person has clearly been proven wrong, with internal NHL documents as proof, and he keeps arguing, that should be considered the same thing as baiting or whatever rule you guys have. I don't know how to be more responsible than this. The guy says "any legislation" can be passed with 7 votes. I show him he's obviously wrong, support it with evidence, and then he cites some rule that applies ONLY to lockouts as proof that ALL LEGISLATION only needs 7 votes to pass. I'm done, you obviously can't debate reasonably with a person who cannot contextualize information.

I agree, the point I was trying to make was that attempts to white wash Mike ilitch's (shared) culpability for the lockout is revisionist history and is obviously an attempt to make the poster feel good, and not an attempt to address the truth. But you're right Holland had nothing to do with it. This is not a fact. Not even close. Attached is the NHL constitution which explains the rules for conducting business in the NHL. In Article 5 you can read how BOG decisions are made. In order to conduct business a quorum (Majority) must be present at the beginning of the meeting in order for a vote to be taken (Article 5, Section 9). Any meeting can only be held after 10 days previous notice, so no secret meeting (Article 5, Section 8). ANY FORMAL ACTION TAKEN BY THE LEAGUE REQUIRES A MAJORITY VOTE IN A MEETING WHICH BEGAN WITH A QUORUM (ARTICLE 5, SECTION 16A). INFORMAL ACTIONS (NOT REQUIRING A QUORUM MEETING) REQUIRE A 3/4 MAJORITY VOTE (ARTICLE 5, SECTION 16B). So no, any legislation does cannot pass with only 7 votes. Nice try though. http://multimedia.thestar.com/acrobat/0e/bf/faddf06240c5bf8d958eb8855bec.pdf

I love watching this and then remembering Kessler's interview about how Kronwall needs to answer the bell when he hits guys. Obviously he's very concerned with playing old time hockey. What a clown!

Wait are you guys suggesting that the lockout vote wasn't unanimous and that the NHL and every single credible hockey reporter is either lying or perpetuating the lie? Link please? Or is this just some further speculation to justify your irrational hatred of Bettman without acknowledging the fact that our beloved Mike Ilitch might not have the fans in mind when he makes business decisions? As a matter of fact (and since we're speculating), how do we know that the booes weren't the public's reaction to finding out that Ilitch hasn't payed his taxes, rents, and concessions for about 30 years, costing the city and the people who love it millions (by some accounts 70+ million) dollars?

I agree, he's not intimidating. But he's dirty enough to make people pay for weak s*** like diving. Nobody was scared of Chelios either but you didn't get anything free when that guy was on the ice.

Zetterberg and Brunner combined for a measly three goals and six points today. Slackers!

Kelly Hrudey.