kipwinger

Also, I think this puts to bed any speculation that Cleary is going to be the odd man out of our roster anytime soon. Looks to be a pretty integral part of the team leadership at this point.

He's definitely not Doan, but he plays a similar style and he'd be MUCH cheaper. Plus, I'd love to see an old goat line with Arnott, Bertuzzi, and Sammy. They'd be slower than hell but hard to take the puck from once they gained the zone. Imagine a cycle with those three down low, they'd wear on defenses with that size.

Nope, I just don't want Doan on a long term deal. I love the guy, I really do, but not for the next four years. As you and I have already discussed in another thread, I would rather have Arnott for a year than Doan for four.

It would give us the opportunity to add a little size up the middle, plus if he or and helm were the second line center then we could get Zetterberg back on the wing, which would really help on the top six.

If we could get him on a one year contract, would anybody be opposed to signing Jason Arnott as a cheaper, but roughly similar player to Shane Doan?

I decided to put this here because I didn't want to start another thread. Anybody else see that Dan Cleary was representing the Red Wings at the labor talks? I know that Abby and Kronwall are the union reps but according to one article I read, the team decided to send Cleary because they wanted a veteran to represent them (rather than Abby) and it didn't say why Kronwall didn't go. Anyway, if Cleary is well respected enough around the locker room and organization, anybody else think he might be the one getting Zetterberg's soon to be vacated "A"?

Honestly no, he got paid too much and he's not even top five or maybe even ten at this position. I am a little miffed however, that we didn't hedge our bets and land a quality 4-5 guy like Bryan Allen early on in free agency, just in case.

Cool, I didn't really feel like digging into it, so I'm glad you did. It didn't really seem like Holland's MO but I'm glad for verification. Thanks for the heads up.

Big shout out to RedWingsDad whose comment in another thread led me to create this one. Anyway, I thought rather than discussing free agency anymore, which I'm entirely sick of, why not talk about teams. Of course I realize that this will ultimately devolve into what coulda, shoulda, or woulda happened in free agency but oh well. My thoughts... Columbus: Actually got a little tougher to play against by adding depth at forward. Foligno, Dubinsky, and Anisimov will help. And between Murray, Johnson, Aucoin, and Wisniewski (if he's healthy) have a halfway decent defense corps. Still the worst team in the division by far, but will steal a few more games than they did last year. Chicago: Same scary offense, defense is a little more solid with Brookbank, still glaringly bad in net. Even to slight improvement overall. Nashville: Forward corps lost Radulov and Kostitsyn, neither of whom played most of last season and they were still a force in the division. Kept Gaustad which helps on the bottom end. Lost Suter, but still real good on defense with Weber, Gill, Josi, and Klein. Worse in goal after swapping Lindback for Mason. Slight to moderate regression from last year. St. Louis: As good or slightly better on offense with a healthy Perron and Langenbrunner. No noticeable improvement on defense. And perhaps the best goalie tandem in the league. No large change, still very very good. Detroit: No noticeable improvement on offense. Sammy for Hudler improvement offset by unknown quantities in Nyquist and Brunner, plus another year older for the core. Regression on defense. Improvement in goaltending. Overall substantial decrease. Conclusion: St. Louis is the odds on favorite to win the division, with Detroit, Chicago, and Nashville all vying for the second through fourth spots. Overall, perhaps the most highly contested division in the NHL though probably not the best division.

This is fun...ugh. According to ESPN: "Is Jay Bouwmeester Michigan-bound? According to the Calgary Herald, word has it the Detroit Red Wings have made a pitch for the Calgary Flames defenseman. Losing both Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart this offseason, the Red Wings have a gaping hole on the blue line and few decent free-agent options. GM Ken Holland has an excess of solid forwards to offer the Flames in exchange. The Anaheim Ducks, Nashville Predators, and St. Louis Blues are also looking to add an experienced NHL D-man. And GM Paul Holmgren of the Philadelphia Flyers could still be open to making such a move after losing out on Shea Weber." This is the one and only time that I unequivocally want Holland to lowball himself out of the market. Just what we need, an offensive defenseman who doesn't score much, whose cap hit is outrageous, and who's signed for two more years. Half of our remaining 13 million dollars spent on Jay f****** Bouwmeester. Puke.

I don't see how, Chicago and St. Louis are the same or slightly better than last year. Additionally, Columbus got better...not that it matters much. Detroit and Nashville are the only teams that regressed, and even then, three points separated Detroit, Nashville, and Chicago. I've made my predictions about how things will turn out, and obviously I could be wrong, but I think it's a fallacy to suggest that every team in the division got worse along with us.

Ericsson is getting better and I'm really interested to see how he plays this year, he might be the biggest surprise of the defensive corps if he can step up and be a consistent shutdown guy. Quincey is good, but he's not a defensive defenseman. He scores decently, is good on the PP, and is good in transition, but he does not play the type of game that makes me believe that he's going to win matchups against guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Backes, Thornton, Hossa, Toews. Smith is good but unknown, and even if he plays like a stud, he still weighs in at under 200 lbs. Power forwards will eat him alive. Smith is projected to be an offensive defenseman with a physical edge, a lot like Kronwall, who incidentally doesn't really play well against big forwards. I guess what I'm saying is that we're going to have defense my committee this year, and I'd feel a lot better if that committee had a little bit more shutdown ability, and a little more size. Here's hoping Kindl and Ericsson step up in a HUGE way.

That's a lot of print just to say that our defense can score. But they actually have to play defense too, and I think that's where some fans (myself included) start getting nervous. We don't really have any good, top four, defensive defensemen. We also don't really have any big bodied top four defensemen. I recall a couple years ago watching Thornton, Marleau, and Heatley steamroll our defensemen and dominate the front of our net, and that was with Stuart and Lidstrom in the top four. I can't even imagine what they'd have done to Kronwall, White, and Quincey. Same as I sort of cringe when I think about our current defense trying to handle a steady diet of David Backes or Jonathan Toews. That's the worry from me anyway, there's no doubt in my mind that our defense will score, but that's only useful if they actually play defense too.

Good post, I don't agree with every point you made, but I agree with most of them.

That's because we'd have to part with a top six forward for either of them, and since we've only got arguably 4 or 5 legitimate top six forwards as is, there's pretty much no chance in hell we're going to move one.

I've never really understood the rationale behind this "so and so goalie hasn't proven anything because he plays for a good team" argument. According to that logic Brodeur, Hasek, Sawchuk, and Roy ought to be in the same category as Osgood, and Curtis Joseph or Ed Belfour should be considered the greatest goalie that ever lived. Also, if Howard's a bum for having the seventh best defense in front of him last year, then are Elliot, Quick, and Lundqvist bums for backstopping the first, second, and third best defenses? Edit: Actually, why stop there? If the only individual accomplishments that count are the ones made on terrible teams, then you'd have to say Rick Nash or John Tavares are the best forwards in the NHL today, and Carey Price is the NHL's top goalie.

Aha, that makes way more sense. I'd have signed that one in a heartbeat then.

You know what, you're totally right. I completely misread that after having just woke up. He's not from here and my post was pointless haha.

I don't think this is all that uncommon. I'm pretty sure guys who are well liked around the league frequently work out with their hometown teams during the summer. I know David Legwand was a regular working out with the Wings a few years ago, so I wouldn't read too much into it

That's way too much for Kaleta, but that said, I love that guy. He's like Tootoo but a little bigger, a little better fighter, and still can turn in a decent shift each night.

Gotta say one of my favs is Kronwall on Clowe just because of all Clowe's tough talk before the game. Ask and ye shall receive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weFx9DMiros

Here's a little break down of Ken Hitchcock's coaching career...well the first part of it anyway. After one bad season with Philly he was sent to Columbus and nobody could have done anything with that organization. After reading this I'm convinced he only really ever had one bad season amidst a decade of success. I'm not really sure where this "his coaching philosophy isn't good long term" stuff comes from. "In 1990, Hitchcock left the WHL and joined the Philadelphia Flyers as an assistant coach. Hitchcock spent three seasons with the Flyers organization before leaving to helm the Dallas Stars' IHL franchise, the Kalamazoo Wings, for the 1993–94 season. In the middle of his third season with the team (then renamed the Michigan K-Wings), he was offered the head coaching position with the Dallas Stars and on January 8, 1996, he was named head coach, replacing Bob Gainey, who remained with the Stars as general manager. In his first full season with the Stars, he led the team to a first-place finish in the Central Division and a playoff berth. In his second full season with the Stars, Hitchcock again led the Stars to the playoffs, losing in the Conference Finals to the eventual Stanley Cup champion Detroit Red Wings. Also during the 1997–98 season, Hitchcock was named to his first of three consecutive NHL All-Star Game teams as coach. During the 1998–99 NHL season, Hitchcock led the Stars to a regular season record of 51–19–12 (0.695 winning percentage), a team best. In the playoffs, Hitchcock led the team to a Stanley Cup victory over the Buffalo Sabres, the team's first. The next season, Hitchcock again led the team to the Stanley Cup finals, only to lose to the New Jersey Devils. In the 2000–01 season, Hitchcock again led the Stars to the playoffs, but exited early. Midway through the following season, after getting off to a mediocre 23–21–6 start and in the midst of strife between the players and management, Hitchcock was fired as head coach. Hitchcock was quickly picked up in the off-season by his old team, the Philadelphia Flyers, who had just fired their coach, Bill Barber, after an early exit from the playoffs. Hitchcock brought much-needed discipline and direction to the Flyers and led them to a 45–24–13 record in his first season, losing in the Conference Semi-finals. In Hitchcock's second season with the Flyers, the Flyers finished first in the division with a 40–21–15 record and advanced to the Conference Finals, losing to the eventual champion Tampa Bay Lightning in seven games."

I don't think they look good, but I think they look better. I think that if they played a defense first system, with those forwards playing a defensively oriented game with opportunistic scoring (sort of like Nashville and Phoenix) then they'd be a tough team to play against. They finished second to last but made the playoffs in the six spot. The division was tight, somebody with a pretty good team was going to finish second to last in that division. They only finished a point behind us.

That will be a big question mark. I'd imagine that any team that went from being that bad, to getting a taste of what winning is like will want to keep it up, but I had totally forgotten about the poor start to last season.

I do think Sammy is an improvement, and our bottom six is better, but I've thought for the last three years that our top six lacked...legitimate top sixers. On most nights we lose the match up game. I'm excited about what the kids can bring next year, but I still can't help but think that any top six we throw on the ice isn't as good as most top six groups for the elite teams. Plus, our group can't really solve the really tough defenses in the league. Most have figured out how to keep us away from the net and on the outside. I don't think Nyquist, Brunner, or Sammy really help us in that regard. That said, Cleary and Bert on the third line is a mismatch against most teams in the league, and huge years out of Franzen, Flip, and Helm could make us better than we look on paper. We'll make the playoffs, but without noticeable improvements from the guys mentioned above, and better than average rookie performances out of the kids, I have serious doubts about how far we go.